CE Interview: Rob Cizek, Executive Pastor, Northshore Christian Church, Everett, WA

“Surprisingly smooth” is how Rob Cizek — executive pastor and an Emmy Awards-winning TV news director — describes his transition from the newsroom to the church world. Adeptly skilled in the competitive field of broadcasting, Cizek brings professionalism, collaboration and a good sense of judgment to the daily operation of Northshore Christian Church in Everett, WA.

Cizek says he had reached a point in his television career where he had accomplished most of what he originally set out to do. So, he started praying for God’s next move for his work life. After two years of praying and waiting, Cizek met an executive pastor whose corporate experience was similar to his. He told Cizek that large churches need people with business backgrounds to run the church organization. Encouraged by the conversation, Cizek began talking with senior pastor Ken Long. In 2005, Cizek became the executive pastor of Northshore, a 1,500-member nondenominational church.

Cizek says the church board, staff and congregation were welcoming and graceful, and allowed him to lead from his strengths, without placing unrealistic expectations on him for teaching and shepherding.

What skills have you developed in the newsroom that proved handy in the church world?

Decisiveness: Newsrooms are filled with constant deadlines and the demands of live television. A newsroom leader easily makes more than 200 decisions a day. Whether in television or in church, the team needs its leader to make decisions. Make the best decisions you can on the spot so your staff members can do their jobs. You’ll get it right 98 percent of the time; for the 2 percent of the time when you’re wrong, simply ask forgiveness. Overall, your staff will see that it’s far better to make decisions quickly than to gum up the works with slow deliberation.

Authenticity: Viewers have a relationship with news anchors. The strongest anchors are those who share bits of their lives, humanize news stories and humbly own their shortcomings.

Viewers become loyal. They will love and forgive these anchors when they occasionally make a mistake.
Conversely, viewers give the egotistical and pompous anchor a very different treatment. They may watch, but they pounce hard when a mistake is made. They like to see the blowhard take a fall. The same holds true for relationships in the church, especially with pastors. People want authenticity and humility from their leaders.

Directness: Newsrooms are high-productivity environments. Things move fast towards the common goal of producing the next newscast. There’s little time to waste. As such, journalists tend to speak in a very direct manner. When people are direct, they always know where they stand with each other. The relational “air” is clear.

Focus: Different news stations focus on different segments of the community. Some are soft and friendly; other stations are tabloid. Our station chose to focus on breaking news and weather coverage.

In church, we don’t have to be all things to all people. The community is served by a huge number of churches. While every church should fulfill all the functions mandated in Scripture, there’s no need for it to be “all things to all people.” Focus equals effectiveness.

What’s your take on balancing ministry and business in managing church staff?

In church leadership, it’s tempting to see every problem as a spiritual challenge. This hinders our ability to see problems correctly. I try to categorize what kind of challenge we’re facing and provide a corresponding solution.

For instance, business problems require business solutions. People problems require people solutions. Spiritual problems require spiritual solutions. We’re most effective when we tailor the nature of our response to the nature of our challenge.

How can churches be more effective in the area of communication?

The first step is to honestly evaluate a church’s existing communication strategy. In what era was it implemented? Many churches still cling to printed methods, primarily — bulletins, ads in phone books, handouts, door hangers and mailers. It’s possible these tools may still have some role in today’s strategy, but churches need to be brutally honest about how their people communicate now.

The next step is to consider which electronic tools will best reach your congregation. More people read texts than any other form of communication. Email is largely getting ignored because of overuse and spam. The majority of people have smart phones and appreciate having an app with which to connect to their church.

People expect their church service to be podcast (and, preferably, streamed live, as well).

Websites aren’t special anymore; but, people expect to easily find a wide range of current information on your church’s site. Most people first find your church through search engines, and they check out your website before visiting in person. To make sure your website is search engine-friendly, hire a search engine optimization consultant. Make sure the site makes a great first impression. Strongly consider using ads on search engines (Google AdWords, for example).

People also expect to be able to follow your church on Facebook and Twitter. Social media feeds should be both informative (the latest events/updates) and interactive (relational) in nature. Typically, this requires that a “digital native” — a person who has grown up with social media — handle your church’s social media strategy. These individuals think differently and intuitively use the medium well.

What makes strategic planning fail — or succeed?

Strategic plans work when they involve the team from day one; people support what they help design. Other success factors include proper resourcing, constant reinforcement of the vision, empowering people to act on the vision, and having organizational structures in place that support the plan.

Strategic plans fail when leaders don’t create a strong enough sense of urgency about the necessary changes. Other factors include under-communication, creating teams that lack the necessary horsepower, failure to remove obstacles, not pruning old systems/programs/ thinking to make room for the new, and not infusing the vision into organizational culture.

How do you build a trusting relationship with your senior pastor and elder board?

Building trust starts with setting expectations. I ask them what they both expect — and don’t expect — of me in my role. Then, I ask if it’s OK to “keep short accounts.” This means they have permission to immediately speak with me about any concerns they have about me, and that I have their permission to bring up difficult subjects with them. It’s critical that difficult things be discussed immediately when they arise. This allows you to develop healthy working relationships and a reputation as someone who’s honest, intuitive, courageous and trustworthy.

Another key to developing trust is to implement a “no surprises” policy. This means that you make extra effort to keep people in the know about what’s happening — good and bad. When you speak with your board and senior pastor, use a direct-yet-respectful style. They should be able to count on you for timely, factual and unbiased information presented in a no-nonsense manner.

When you mess up, tell them immediately, and take responsibility for your actions. Explore difficult topics behind closed doors; then, publicly support the direction set by your board and senior pastor.

Live every aspect of your life with integrity. A consistent track record of good personal and professional decision-making builds trust.

Provide rationale for your decisions. This way even if people don’t agree with you, they understand why you do what you do. Trust is built by consistently doing the things you say you’ll do.

What’s your strategy for building a culture of innovation?

The best way to innovate is to take an existing concept and use it in a different way. The guy who invented “sticky notes” simply took an existing notepad and added sticky glue on each note so the notes can be used in a different way.

Additionally, smart innovators study history, because “everything old is new again.” Just look at the fashion industry and the way it recycles 50-year-old ideas.

Innovation is helped when your team members know they have permission to fail. It’s also fostered when your team works outside of its usual environment (goes on field trips, meets in different/inspiring places).

I urge churches to use discernment in the area of innovation. Certain organizations, such as technology companies and car makers, are expected to be innovative. Other organizations (accounting firms, for instance) aren’t. The church lies between these two extremes. The primary functions of church, as defined in Scripture, haven’t changed in 2,000 years; there’s no need to innovate here. What does change are the methods we use to achieve these functions. Cutting-edge innovation with church methods can be desirable; but, if we get them wrong, they can also waste precious budget resources and turn people off of church.

I believe the best approach to innovation is for a church to survey the new methods being successfully used by other churches. You can then figure out how to adapt those innovations to your specific church context and location. Find out where the Holy Spirit is going, and get on board. To put it in business terms, on the technology-adoption lifecycle curve, don’t be among the 2.5 percent of innovators; be among the 13.5 percent of early adopters. In practical terms, this is the way to gain the most from innovation and to minimize the risks associated with trailblazing.

How does the presence of Boeing in your community affect the culture at your church?

Boeing has nearly 30,000 employees in the city of Everett (100,000 residents). People who work at Boeing tend to be well-educated and well-compensated. The values of Boeing employees affect how our community thinks and what it values. There are engineers, fabricators, designers, test pilots, salespeople and airplane software designers. They value intelligent conversation, education, precision, giving and programs executed with excellence. When Boeing employees come to church, they bring their culture with them. As leaders, we get a lot of scrutiny from engineers at our church who want to make sure we’re doing things right and with credibility. That’s just their culture: Every plane that comes out of Boeing is as absolutely perfect as they can possibly make it, because lives are at stake. As a church, we have to be sensitive to that.

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‘Be you,’ and other tips for new Executive Pastors

Rob Cizek offers some words of wisdom to new executive pastors who are coming into the ministry from the corporate world.

Don’t let anyone devalue how God prepared you for ministry. God taught you how to administer your church in the business world because he believes it’s the best place for you to learn such things. Seminaries are great for academics and theology, but their focus isn’t on teaching people the nuts and bolts of running an organization.

Don’t pretend to be something you aren’t. Just because you were called to a job with the “pastor” title doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a spiritual superstar. People know you came from the business world. They don’t expect you to have the same gifting and background as the senior pastor. Work diligently on your relationship with God, and be transparent. People will accept you even if you didn’t go to seminary.

Find a mentor. Before starting as executive pastor, I asked the executive pastor at my previous church if he would mentor me for one year, long-distance. He did so, gladly. His insights and support really helped me make the transition well. After the first year, I developed relationships with other executive pastors in my church area. They’ve been an ongoing source of information and support for several years.

Use training podcasts, DVDs, books, blogs and Twitter. The church world has an incredible number of resources from which you can learn leadership. There are excellent podcasts, conference DVDs, books and blogs for church leaders. I find following church leaders on Twitter of particular value — so much so that I started posting resources every day (@RobCizek).

The CE Interview: Larry Brey, Campus Pastor, Elevation Church, Charlotte, NC

Larry Brey was a college professor and director of sports medicine at Gardner-Webb University in Boiling Springs, NC, when he decided he was created for more than what he had become. Against all logic, he joined a group of eight
families to follow a young, passionate pastor who wanted to change the world.

Elevation Church in Charlotte, NC, would soon become one of America’s megachurches under the leadership of that young, passionate pastor: Steven Furtick. “Explosive” was how people described Elevation’s growth. In its first year, weekly attendance grew to more than 1,800.

Now, in its seventh year, Elevation welcomes 12,000 people each weekend across seven campuses.

“I think everyone [on the core team] knew very early on that God was going to do something big through Elevation; we just didn’t think it would be that fast,” says Brey.

But, fast didn’t mean easy. The year leading up to the church launch saw the core team wrestling with every imaginable curve ball, as well as some serious setbacks. On Feb. 5, 2006, when Elevation finally held its first Sunday experience in the auditorium of Providence High School, 121 people showed up. Brey, who took the attendance that Sunday, recalls the rundown: 98 adults, 23 kids.

Today, Brey serves as the campus pastor at Elevation’s University City location — and for the past seven years has been seeing people who are far from God raised into life in Christ.

What did the early days of Elevation Church look like? What was your role back then?

Those early days through the launch of the church were very hard. None of us were from Charlotte, and we had very few contacts in the city. Churches were starting left and right. People really didn’t want to be a part of something that didn’t exist yet.

As with any new church, everyone carried multiple roles. My official title was assimilation pastor, but you name it and I did it. I took care of facility rentals, volunteer scheduling, first-time guest follow-up, setting up mail and phone service, pulling trailers, and setting up our sound system until we launched. My biggest role revolved around creating a great guest experience and driving our first-time-guest follow-up processes.

When we started Elevation, we didn’t think of it becoming a multisite church; that came out of the rapid growth, and because we ran out of seats. When we launched a campus, we didn’t hire additional staff; we reallocated our current leadership staff and gave them additional duties. As we opened additional campuses, my role was to help launch the campus with the right structure and systems and to ensure that it operated with the right culture and DNA.

How does your role as campus pastor impact the entire Elevation movement?

As campus pastors, our primary role is to create an incredible weekend worship experience. It begins in the parking lot with an honoring and engaging experience from our guest services teams, and then flows through a seamless children’s-check-in experience, and continues through an amazing worship experience where guests feel like they’re in great hands because they know what’s coming next and are free from distractions. The impact is one life at a time.

When we can create a place where people feel loved and welcomed, where everything that happens makes sense, and where the sermon is engaging and applicable, lives will be transformed. We see it every weekend as God changes countless lives.

What does Elevation look for in a campus pastor?

We’re always looking for the best and the brightest leaders. The kind of people who would make great campus pastors are the ones who’ve been transformed by the church the most; the ones who “get” the vision and heart of the house.

The ones who aren’t looking for a stepping stone to the next thing, but are called to make an impact for a greater thing. People who are likeable and who make everyone around them better. They need to have the capacity to communicate in a compelling manner and multiply the culture/vision of Elevation in everyone who walks through the doors.

Is there competition among Elevation campus pastors?

I think anyone who’s a successful leader is competitive. The hard part is harnessing that spirit of competition into one that makes everyone better and raises the level of excellence. Pastor Steven is a fantastic leader in leveraging that spirit of competition. He has learned how to make us all better by fostering a healthy competition on our staff.

Often in a competition, there’s a winner and a loser. That’s divisive competition because it puts people on different teams. When that happens, people work against each other.

Healthy competition is when we recognize we’re teammates and we’re working for the same thing — to create the best possible worship experience, where people can meet Jesus. And if you have a better idea to accomplish that, and you’re getting better results, there’s something I need to learn from you!

Your weekly worship gathering happens at a YMCA facility. In this setting, what operational issues do you often have to address?

We have two permanent campuses and five portable campuses. The campus I oversee meets at a YMCA in the gymnasium. It’s by far our most portable campus and requires the greatest amount of gear, the greatest number of people engaged in the process, and the shortest tear-down time.

Because of the volume of gear and people required, we set up on Saturday from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. Each Saturday, 120 volunteers will unload three 20-foot storage pods, two 16-foot trailers, two box trucks, and two 12-foot trailers. We set up the auditorium in the gym, where we put down a flooring surface; then, we set up a 40-foot-by-20-foot stage, three 16-foot-by-9-foot screens, 340 feet of 18-foot-tall velour pipe and drape, and 200 feet of 8-foot-tall pipe and drape. We bring six lighting trusses up two flights of stairs and run hundreds of feet of lighting, power and audio cable. We also set up more than a dozen rooms for our eKidz ministry, as well as stage all the hallways to look like Elevation. When we launched the campus, we realized the amount of work it would take to set it up. But, we embraced the challenge and, as Pastor Steven has taught us, “We think  inside the box.” What many would have seen as a huge obstacle to overcome with Saturday night set-up, turned into the greatest opportunity for our campus to develop community and instill the culture deep into the volunteer base.

What are the advantages of meeting for worship at a community facility?

Our operating costs are significantly decreased through renting a facility on the weekends. It’s a very cost-effective way to open new campuses. The rent we pay provides YMCA an income that helps it offer greater services to the community.

The advantage is not only financial. People come to YMCA on the weekends to work out, but then find a church meeting there. So, they come on in and worship with us, and many end up giving their lives to Christ — that never gets old!

How do you identify high-caliber people and develop them into church leaders?

I think that’s one question that every church is wrestling with. Excellence attracts excellence. If we operate at the highest capacity, people are drawn to that, and they want to be a part of it. Those people are walking in and out of our doors every weekend; our opportunity is to inspire them for something greater, something more.

One opportunity is to invite some of them to come on staff. But, the greater opportunity is for people to do what they’re doing in a greater way. We encourage and equip them to use their current platform to advance the kingdom, and we remind them that God has called them into the marketplace not just to survive it, but to transform it. We try to provide multiple on-ramps to help identify high-caliber people, such as volunteering, leading our small groups or [taking on] leadership [roles] based on their giving and generosity.

There are a lot of high-caliber leaders who need someone to step into their lives and challenge them for more. At Elevation, campus leaders and staff are the ones stepping into the traffic lanes and into people’s lives, inviting them into a life of greater.

How do you keep up with a visionary leader like Steven Furtick?

Pastor Steven is the most anointed and forward-thinking leader I’ve ever been around. He’s thinking months and years ahead of the rest of the church, and that’s the way it should be.

Our job isn’t to keep up with him, because we really can’t; our job is to keep him at the right altitude. When he’s at the right altitude, he can deal with things that only he can do. He’s getting time with God and seeking clear direction for the church. When he’s at that altitude, he’s looking at things from the right perspective and asking questions that can only be asked from that vantage point.

When we, as leaders, aren’t executing the things he’s entrusted to our care, it means that he has to come down to a lower altitude — air space we’re called to occupy — and deal with something he shouldn’t be touching. Every time that happens, it slows forward momentum. Our role is to do the things that we’re called to do, so that he can do the things that only he can do.

How does Elevation run a lean and mean megachurch?

Elevation has experienced explosive growth, with more than 12,000 people each weekend across our seven campuses in seven years of ministry. What God has done is incredible, and only he can take the credit. If we were to settle in and think we’ve arrived, we could let up. But we don’t think we’ve arrived; we really feel like we’re just getting started.

We don’t compare ourselves to what has happened; we compare ourselves to the need that exists.

There are more than one million people in the Charlotte area. When we compare ourselves against that need, we’ve barely scratched the surface.

We’re intentionally understaffed because our role isn’t to do the work of the ministry — it’s to equip the people for the work of the ministry. Elevation wouldn’t exist were it not for the thousands of volunteers who use their gifts for God’s glory each and every week. They really are the engine that makes everything happen. A great staff member is one that empowers people to do what they were created to do. If a staff member can’t figure that out, they won’t be on staff very long.

What’s the biggest strength that you bring to the leadership table at Elevation?

I think my greatest contribution to the staff is a relentless passion for creating a culture of honor. A culture that lives out 360 degrees of honor — honor for those above you, alongside you and entrusted to your care because of the position and potential of each individual in your life. That passion is constantly trying to raise the bar of our culture to a level consistent with the vision God gave Pastor Steven for Elevation.

What’s heavy on your heart as a church leader?

There’s greatness inside of everyone, and the burden I feel is the burden of complacency. People are settling for less than God’s best because good becomes good enough. Time talks people out of their dreams, or they feel like their past disqualifies them from their destiny.

I have an insatiable desire for people to step into the fullness of becoming the person God created them to be.

Larry Brey, campus pastor
Email: lbrey@elevationchurch.org
Phone: (704) 246-0813 — Office
Twitter: @lbrey

Scott Anderson, Executive Pastor, Eagle Brook Church, Centerville, MN

Scott Anderson started attending Eagle Brook Church (EBC) with his family in 1993 and joined the staff in 1997 as the facility manager after 18 years of managing restaurants for the McDonald’s Corporation. He started as a “glorified custodian,” but he says it was the very best way for him to learn from the ground up.

As Eagle Brook Church grew from 350 people in 1991 to 5,500 on the same property in 2005, to today’s five campuses around the Minneapolis – St. Paul area – each hosting four weekend services and altogether often attracting 18,000 people or more each weekend – Anderson says the leaders and attenders became experts at creative solutions to making room for people who needed to hear the Gospel.

Before Eagle Brook moved to its “Promised Land,” a 92-acre facility in Lino Lakes, MN, the church was doing seven weekend services and seeing 5,500 people in a 60,000-square-foot facility that seated 800 people. Lots of lessons learned, Anderson admits. On Dec. 6, 2005, EBC held its first service in the new campus that seated 2,100 people at a time. That weekend, more than 8,000 people showed up for services at Eagle Brook Lino Lakes, effectively exceeding capacity on the first weekend. As the new campus quickly filled up, EBC reopened its original facility six weeks later for weekend services.

Thus, the multisite ministry was born, as well as the learning curve – from campus leadership and staffing to technological challenges and funding. Anderson says he’s had the incredible honor of being able to grow with the church. Today, he serves as the executive pastor, reporting directly to Bob Merritt, the senior pastor.

What attracted you to join Eagle Brook Church in 1993 and stay there long enough to get hired on staff?

My family and I were looking for a church closer to home. One of my employees at McDonald’s, Chuckie, was always talking to me about her church. So, in some ways, just to get Chuckie off our backs, we decided to give First Baptist Church of White Bear Lake (later to be known as Eagle Brook Church) a try. The week following our visit, we each received permanent nametags in the mail with our names on them. We saw a church that clearly was on a mission to reach lost people, and a church body that was willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Even then, the growth in attendance was stretching the capacity of the building to its limits. One Sunday we came to church, all of the staff offices had been torn out to make more lobby space, which was sorely needed. I had never experienced a church where the right decision could be made and executed in the snap of a finger.

How did your work experience at the McDonald’s Corporation prepare you for the facility manager job – and eventually the executive pastor role?

In 18 years of working for McDonald’s, I was trained and given the opportunity to lead in the areas of people, products and systems, each of which is critical to almost any organization. Added to these were years of balancing these elements in a constantly changing and fast-paced environment, giving me the ability to thrive in a world filled with unknowns.

Ironically, working primarily with teenagers for almost two decades was the perfect preparation for working in the church world. Sometimes church people act like teenagers when they don’t get what they want. It’s natural for people who have a great sense of ownership in the church to want to also have a strong level of influence. Managing those expectations is tricky, delicate and sometimes has to be done with decisiveness. It’s never easy, but always necessary.

As Eagle Brook has become a multisite ministry, the need for appropriate processes and systems has grown as well. Whereas 10 years ago we all worked with each other day in and day out, today, we work in different campuses and on different parts of the mission. Our people have had to grow in this area, too, so that we can effectively manage more than 200 employees and still hit the mark.

What perspective has working from the ground up given you that could be easy to miss in the church world?

At Eagle Brook, we look at people through the lenses of character, competence and chemistry, but the biggest indicator of true fit is character – and that is developed over time. I made a lot of mistakes as I worked my way through my career, but at every juncture I had a choice to make – to learn from my mistakes and keep moving, or just stop growing my character. I still have a long ways to go in this area, but what character development I have experienced has been the result of time, relationship and work.

For many, it takes a full year or more to become acclimated to our culture and the way we do ministry, and far too many people come into a new role and just go for it without taking the time to understand the world they just entered. Obviously, things have to get done and decisions have to be made, but spending time getting to know the players, understanding where the landmines are, and finding out what is most important should be a top priority.

What is your most important role as executive pastor?

I have to work hard to know what it is that I need to be in the circumstance that I am in. Often, I am convener and discussion leader. More often than I prefer, I am the one who has to lean in on difficult relational conflict between staff or with an attender. Sometimes, I am cheerleader; other times I am critic. Each part of my day calls out something different in me, and I have to be thoughtful about it.

Probably the most noticeable impacts that I have had are in future-planning. I tend to be the guy who starts to percolate on what the future may look like from a logistics standpoint. We decided as a team, for instance, that we were going to be a church of 10,000 by 2005, but it was my responsibility to put the plan together that would get us there. In today’s world, we’ve purposed to add four to five new campuses in the next 10 years, and with a great team, we identify the stepping stones that will enable us to get there.

What lessons have you learned from leading a number of capital campaigns at EBC?

I have led five stewardship campaigns at Eagle Brook, starting in 2000. We’ve been in a perpetual campaign without a break since that time. A few things I’ve learned:

1. People want to be part of something that’s important, something that will make a difference in this world.
2. A campaign is a forced reminder to teach about our mission as a church. It refocuses us on what is most important and reminds our people that it’s about more than just us.
3. A campaign is a great on-ramp for people who don’t always see the value in giving to the operating fund. They can use the more inspiring initiatives within a campaign to get excited about, and begin a journey of spiritual growth through giving.
4. The details aren’t as important as you think they are. If people like who you are and are drawn to your mission, keep it big-picture. Have the details for the major donors and those who ask questions.
5. People will trust you more than they should. Be worthy of that trust. Make sure you can deliver on what you dream about doing together.

How do you run a five-campus, 18,000-strong church efficiently?

We don’t! One of our organizational distinctives is that doing church in a multisite environment is messy, and we are OK with that. That said, we are a rather high-control environment, meaning that what happens at a campus is thoroughly designed and delivered to the campus for implementation in a way that keeps our core values and desired outcomes at the top of the list.

We measure five important outcomes:

1. Are we growing? The only way to reach new people is to have new people coming through our doors.
2. Are people saying “Yes!” to Christ? If people are not choosing to follow Jesus, we lock ourselves in a room until we have a plan in mind to address the problem.
3. Are people involved in a great small group? We have seen that a transformed life never happens in a vacuum.
4. Are people serving in the church?
5. Are people living a generous financial life?
6. I have the best team anywhere. Passionate, proven leaders who understand our mission and will do whatever it takes to enable it to be achieved.

What’s on the horizon for Eagle Brook?

We’ll continue to plan for growth, look for seats and do whatever it takes to reach people who are far from God. Today, at 18,000 in average weekend attendance, Eagle Brook has dreams to keep planning and preparing for aggressive growth, even as the challenges of making it possible get more complex.

But looking back reminds us of God’s faithfulness. Over the past 21 years, Eagle Brook has grown at an average rate of 20.3 percent per year (Kind of freaky). To people who come to find out about us more recently, it seems like an overnight story, but I can tell you that idea is far from the truth. One person at a time – one campus at a time – one community at a time, God is doing something. We’re just keeping up.

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Bold moves, growth tactics

Over the past 20 years, Eagle Brook has grown by an average 20 percent per year, so one of the biggest strategies we have used is to regularly review our staff structure and make needed changes. It has meant that about every two years we have reorganized how our staff is structured. Our structure should answer the question, “Is this the best way to get the work done?”

A key concept that we developed early on is that we will plan for 20 percent growth each year, just in case God wants to send it. If it didn’t happen, we wouldn’t complain – but if it wants to happen and we can’t handle it, why would we be blessed with it? Every year, we’d actually look at what we would need to do to accommodate 20 percent more people in the coming ministry year – and then we’ve made adjustments to allow for it to happen. This required us each year to sit down, intentionally look at our current attendance level and ask the hard questions:

If we had 20 percent more people in worship, could we fit them all in our current services approach?

If we had 20 percent more people coming, will our children’s space be able to handle the increase?

If we had 20 percent more people, do we have room in the parking lot to fit the additional cars?

Over the years, the answers to these three questions led us to:

1. Add a new worship center onto our building.
2. Add a Saturday night service, then a second Saturday night service, then add a third and a fourth Sunday service in our original worship center space, making seven weekend services before we moved to a new location.
3. Add a second campus, then a third, fourth and fifth.
4. Changed our children’s ministry programming from grade-based classroom teaching to large-group teaching with small-group breakouts.
5. Purchased land so that we could enable more parking, and expanded parking lots at two of our campuses.
6. Purchased houses along our property so that we could create a second entry/exit from the parking lot.

Another key concept that we introduced was that we would do whatever it takes to reach people who were far from God. On its face, it doesn’t seem so revolutionary, but in practice, it is harder than one may think! Finally, we decided that we would be a church that was willing and available to do what God calls us to do for Him. Again, it sounds very warm and fuzzy, but over the years it has caused us to do some things that I would have never thought we would do, like:

1. Merge with another church.
2. Launch a campus in a school.
3. Respond to the plight of people in Mozambique, Africa, with more than $2 million per year in support.

— Scott Anderson

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Quick Facts:
Eagle Brook Church: eaglebrookchurch
Senior Pastor: Bob Merritt
Five campuses:

• Lino Lakes
• White Bear Lake
• Spring Lake Park
• Blaine
• Woodbury

Colette Rice was a civil servant for the federal government for 27 years before becoming executive pastor of Mt. Ennon Baptist Church. “Over the span of my career I have amassed skills and developed competencies in the areas of personnel management, budget and finance, procurement, and leadership development – all of which have prepared me to serve in my current capacity,” she says.

She was on a career development track focused on administration and leadership development, all of which prepared her for leading the staff of her church, which has an attendance of 7,500. “I eventually progressed to serve in multiple management-level positions and ultimately retired as the deputy executive officer of administration for the Executive Office of Immigration Review, Board of Immigration Appeals,” she says.

Who was instrumental in your becoming ordained?

Our senior pastor, Delman Coates, hired me to serve the position as assistant to the pastor in March 2007 and swiftly put things in place to prepare me for ordination. On November 7, 2007 I was one of two women ordained to the Gospel ministry, which marked a monumental moment representing the first female clergy to be ordained in the history of the church.

How were you received in that historic move?

As an African-American female indoctrinated in the Baptist faith, my gifts and callings were met with the backlash of a tradition that held to the belief that God did not call women to preach. Let it suffice to say that while the journey was paved with tears, my strength was cultivated through the struggle. I learned during that season of immense adversity that if you remain humble, faithful, available and teachable, you need but only rest on God’s promise stated in I Thess. 5:24 “The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do this!”

The church was founded in 1981 and you have been in the congregation since 1987. Any observations about seeing a church grow to 7,500 in those years?

The main thing I would offer is how essential it is for the church to strive to remain relevant in the lives of believers. Several important observations are (1) Love is foundational, (2) Critique, assessment and evaluation of ministry impact and effectiveness is critical, (3) Change is inevitable, and (4) With God, nothing is impossible.

What was the learning process in the 27 years of your government work that prepared you for the executive pastor position?

The process is primarily one of studying the environment, adapting best practices from past experiences (and leaving behind those things that were not portable to this arena), and most importantly, learning the heart of my pastor and embracing and embodying the vision.

The organization chart indicates that you have 12 direct reports and 14 indirect reports. What supervisory or management approach do you use to maintain oversight of so many people and functions?

My primary management style is management by coaching and developing. While it can be quite time-consuming, it is very rewarding. I gain a lot of pleasure from taking a vision that our pastor casts and guiding the creativity, strategic planning and implementation processes to see the vision through to fruition.

What is the church’s activity now in social justice and community issues?

In 2012 the Pastor Coates was the leading clergy advocate in the state of Maryland for marriage equality for gay and lesbian couples [that passed in Maryland on the November 6 ballot]. He and many others regarded this as a social justice issue, and his advocacy this social justice issue has been widely acknowledged as being responsible for the legislation’s successful passing.

We have taken a very active role in addressing the foreclosure crisis, which has greatly impacted those in our community, by hosting several foreclosure workshops that resulted in a number of our members (and those in the surrounding community) avoiding home foreclosure. In addition, we rallied for health care reform, supported legislation to end the death penalty in Maryland, and conducted HIV/AIDS testing and hosted awareness sessions on a yearly basis.

We have forums and town hall meetings on a range of community and policy issues, including most recently our hosting a series of education roundtables to bring together members and the community to strategically think through how to impact public education in our county.

What are the goals for next year; what is new on the horizon?

While building expansion seems inevitable, we are currently seeking to maximize our existing space. We are in the midst of a sanctuary expansion project, which will provide for additional seating to accommodate the growth. 2013 has been designated as “The Year of Impact.” We will start out with a two-part training series on “The Missional Church” as we seek to develop our local and foreign missions strategy.

Are small group ministries a part of your church’s outreach and growth?

Yes. We encourage assimilation and growth through active involvement within the ministries of the church. To assist with this process, we have training sessions to help members identify their gifts. We also host  ministry open house sessions periodically to familiarize members with the various opportunities to serve.

You have on your website MEBC Connect where members need accounts for access to their church record. How does that work?

MEBC Connect enables our members to log on to their member profile, update information, register for events, activities and ministry opportunities, and track training and ministry participation. Our data management system is ACS Technologies and we try to maximize the use of all of its features.

Is there a visioning process or planning cycle for the church with its leaders and elders?

The pastor leads our visioning process in consultation with staff and ministry leaders. We also have a Leadership Institute held bi-annually to impart the vision to ministry leaders and their teams and provide them with direction and guidance in moving forward.

I attended a black church one Sunday and I never felt more loved and welcomed as I did then. Does worship in a black church differ from that of white churches?

I really can’t say because I don’t get out much I just know that there is something special about Sunday morning when the saints gather together for worship to express love and adoration for this awesome God we serve. I can only hope that others anticipate every opportunity and enjoy themselves as much as I do. I must say that at Mt. Ennon, we strive to create unparalleled worship experiences that people will not soon forget. www.MtEnnon.org

The CE Interview: Sam S. Rainer III, Senior Pastor, Stevens Street Baptist Church, Cookeville, TN.

”I want to die here – old, leathered, scarred, and exhausted.” So says Sam Rainer III as he tries to articulate his deep love for the local church. Sure, the new senior pastor of Stevens Street Baptist Church grew up in a Christian home, yet his parents never pushed him into a ministry career. In fact, they did the opposite.

His father is Thom S. Rainer, author, consultant, and president and CEO of LifeWay Christian Resources of the Southern Baptist Convention. “My father encouraged me to pursue a career in the business world,” says Rainer. “He would later tell me that leaders should not become pastors unless they can do nothing else.”

Yet, while successful in the corporate world, Rainer came to realize that he could not do anything but be a pastor. “I am woefully inadequate to lead the bride of Christ. Yet there is not a day I wake up and do not have a desire to lead the church. I love it, all of it.”

Rainer – who also is the president of Rainer Research, a consulting company – shares with Church Executive his journey from the “cubicle to the pulpit” and the transitions along the way.

When and how did you know that you were called to pastoral ministry?

I was raised in a pastor’s home, so I saw firsthand the rewards and challenges of leading a church. I also knew that I did not have the leadership grit and spiritual fortitude to shepherd a congregation. So I once told God I would do anything for him except be a pastor. Rather than pursuing ministry, as a young professional, I desired to be the next great thing for business (I wasn’t).

I loved my corporate job, but I was not fulfilled. Though I did not realize it, God was beginning my transition from the cubicle to the pulpit. In a random moment, my fiancé (now my wife) found an ad requesting a bi-vocational pastor. She told me about it, and we called the number. I started preaching at that church the following week. It was two hours away, but I fell in love with the people. Over the next couple of years, God grew the dead country church of six people with the terrible city-boy preacher. I thought God would keep me as a bi-vocational preacher, but he had different plans. After a couple of years, he called me to a full-time pastorate.

There was no one moment in which I felt God calling me to ministry. Rather, it was a process in which God used what appeared to be random opportunities to nudge me in his direction.

What are some of the things that you believe God used to prepare you for this calling?

The best preparation I received for the ministry was my local church. I started attending my sending church while in the corporate world for one reason: I really liked a young lady that was involved there. I grew spiritually as our relationship moved towards marriage.

While my motivation was less than spiritual for joining the church, God used it as a way to help me grow. It was in the local church that my mentoring pastor helped me discern God’s calling. The local church provided me preaching opportunities to iron out a lot of wrinkles in how I communicate.

Growing up in a pastor’s home, my father and mother helped disciple me in the local church. Much of my early life was spent in the local church – literally every day after school. When God called me to pastor, it did not surprise anyone except me. Without the foundation of my local church, however, I would not have recognized God’s calling on my life.

You’ve gone through some transitions in ministry in the recent past. How do you know when it’s time to leave and when it’s time to welcome a new journey?

Transitions in ministry require both a push and a pull factor. The push factor is something God uses to begin removing your passion in a particular position. For instance, an associate pastor may begin to feel the call to preach weekly, and his current position may not allow for him to preach.

The push away from a position or place is usually the first way in which God begins to prepare an individual for a transition. Without a pull factor, however, the call to transition is incomplete.

It’s not enough simply to want to leave a place. In addition to a push away, God must also pull you towards a place. The pull factor becomes an open door for another ministry position, a deep desire for a specific geographic place, a heart for a particular people, or a new opportunity within a current place of ministry. I believe in most cases, both a push and a pull factor should be present to justify a ministry transition.

How do you prepare yourself and the staff you’re leaving to help keep relationships healthy and the transition as smoothly as possible?

Transparency and time are two ways to help keep relationships healthy with the staff you are leaving. First, transparency is key. Most of the time your staff will recognize a change in your leadership. They will know something is up as you are working through a transition. Be transparent with them.

Obviously, leaders must be careful not to reveal too much information too early. But most of your staff will feel it when God begins to remove your heart from a place. Walking your staff though both your push and pull factors will help them understand how and why God called you to a different place. Second, spend time with them as you leave. Make it a priority to have one-on-one meetings with your direct reports. Once your team knows you are leaving, stop leading them with a vision and focus on being a good friend to them.

When accepting a call to a new congregation, how do you handle the expectations of its leadership and members?

In the same way transparency and time are critical to maintain healthy relationships with the people you are leaving, they are also important to the people in your new place of ministry.  First, be open and transparent about your leadership style with the leadership in your new congregation. Set their expectations correctly. Don’t over promise to get the job, then under deliver once on the field – that causes long-term leadership damage. Don’t be afraid to point out some of your idiosyncrasies. Everyone has foibles. And people pick up on them quickly. Show levity by admitting them to others in a tactful way. If you tend to ramble, tell people, “I like to think out loud.”

Communication will be easier if leaders recognize their own quirks. Second, spend time with your team and learn to love them. Some people in the church are easy to love. For others, it takes a little more time and spiritual commitment. But all the people in your new place of ministry need to see your leadership as loving.

What are some of the challenges you face when it comes to leading and developing staff?

I love thinking about the future. So much so that it’s tough for me to enjoy the moment. I can get so bogged down in planning for the future that I miss the importance of spontaneous interaction. Developing and leading staff is more than an outline for a successful 10-year plan. Being a good leader involves a willingness to interact with staff and key leaders on a regular basis, even without a formal appointment.

You have a young family, a new church to lead; you are the president of a consulting firm and you are finishing your PhD program – how do you juggle all these important roles?

I keep a disciplined schedule, and I prioritize my time every day. I am intentional about being with my family in the morning because I know my evenings are often full. I also have a great wife who is a huge support. My wife has the same calling that I have. She desires to be a pastor’s wife. If that were not the case, then I would be miserable in my ministry position.

What makes you excited about your work as president of Rainer Research, and how does it help you as a church leader?

As a senior pastor, it is entirely too easy to stay in the church bubble. With mission work, programs and Bible studies happening every day, I could easily justify spending all my time with my congregation. Rainer Research enables me to see what the broader church world is doing across the nation. It excites me to see what other denominations are doing. I get great ideas for my own church by learning from other churches. And I stay abreast of cultural changes in my community by getting outside my own church circle.

What do you think are the critical factors that make or break church health and effectiveness?

Effective church leaders live what they lead. If a pastor wants a church to reach outward, then that pastor will lead the outward movement by example. If a pastor wants a church to have a heart for cross-cultural missions, then that pastor should demonstrate a love for people of a different culture. If a church leader wants the congregation to emphasize a particular spiritual discipline (like Scripture memory), then the church leader should be involved with that spiritual discipline. The most effective church leaders will be healthy personally in areas where they want their church to be healthy. As one of my mentors often reminds me, you cannot lead what you do not live.

www.StevensStreet.org; www.RainerResearch.com

As Hurricane Isaac blew through New Orleans in late August, Fred Luter, 56, could be excused if he felt like “here we go again.” Hurricane Katrina, seven years earlier, destroyed his church and scattered the membership across the country.

“We had more than 1,000 of our members move to Houston, and more than 600 of our members in Baton Rouge, and started a church in both cities that are still meeting. Our members in New Orleans met for a one-hour 7:30 am worship service at First Baptist Church New Orleans, pastored by Dr. David Crosby, a mostly Anglo church. God used this ‘partnership’ to be a testimony to the city of New Orleans.

“By the grace of God,” Luter says, “we have once again seen tremendous church growth since Hurricane Katrina, causing us to have multiple services. If you are not in the sanctuary 10 to 15 minutes before service starts, you have to go to one of three overflow rooms with large TV monitors to watch the worship service.

“We are in a landlocked city block with off-street parking, with some members parking up to four blocks away from the sanctuary. We bought 25 acres of land about 10 miles from our present facility to build a larger sanctuary, but more importantly we can park more than 1,200 cars on the property. We will certainly be able to reach more people with the gospel message that Jesus saves!”

How do you manage your time between your congregation and the responsibilities of the SBC presidency?

In my new role as president of the Southern Baptist Convention, there are some meetings and events that I am obligated to attend. I will block those dates out and then fit in my other responsibilities as a pastor of a growing church. Hopefully, there will not be any major conflicts where I need to be in two places on the same date! Having been a bivocational pastor at one time does certainly help with multitasking when I have to juggle appointments.

In what ways would you describe your election as “making history”?

Being the first African-American to lead the largest Protestant denomination in America is certainly historic; there is no way to get around that. It is something that is mentioned in every interview as well as when being introduced before preaching engagements. I do recognize and embrace the history behind this election.

Do you have an agenda or specific goals you wish to carry out during your tenure?

I am still talking to pastors, state execs, denomination staff, and fellow Southern Baptists around the country to see what needs to be done to turn around our downward trend in church membership and baptisms, particularly among our young people. I am convinced that we must be willing to change some of our outdated methods to reach this new generation. There is no way we can reach this iPod, iPhone and iPad generation with eight-track ministry!

It’s been noted that the percent of non-Anglo churches has moved from one in 20 to one in five just during the last two decades. What should that tell us about the SBC, its growth and future?

It should tell us that the SBC is more of a multiethnic convention. Our convention purposely wants to start more African-American, Hispanic and Asian congregations. The numbers will show that these ethnic groups are growing all across our convention.

Is it too much to hope (as Curtis Freeman has said) “for the convention to move beyond the racialized divisions of the past and into a future where white and black Baptists might begin to see themselves as one people”?

I believe that it is not too much to hope for, but it is not realistic to think that we can ever see ourselves as one people without mentioning black or white. However, I have no doubt that the divisions are coming closer than they have ever been, as proven by my election running unopposed in a predominantly white convention.

You have spoken about your “Damascus Road” experience earlier in your life. What was that about?

After being hit on my motorcycle – a new blue-and-silver Honda 360 – I found myself in a local hospital with a head injury and a compound fracture of my left leg. I almost lost my life. A senior deacon at the church I grew up in came to my hospital bed, put his finger in my face and said, “Boy, obedience is better than sacrifice. If you would be obedient to your Mom you would not be sacrificing your life here in this hospital.” So that night I cried out to God to come into my life and make me a new creature! God did, and I have never been the same! I call that evening my “Damascus Road” experience!

When was the last time you were on a motorcycle?

I have never been on another motorcycle since, not because I do not want to ride again; however I know that if my wife, Elizabeth, found out then I would be sleeping that night on the sofa instead of in my bed!

What was it like to be a street preacher in the Lower Ninth Ward of the city? What did it teach you about life, faith and conversions?

I enjoyed my years as a street preacher. I saw God do a lot of miraculous things on the street corners of the Lower Ninth Ward. Being a street preacher taught me that people, regardless of their lot in life, are hungry for the Word of God and are willing to make a public confession when the Gospel is presented in a way that they can understand.

You have been called a trailblazer in the SBC. How do you see yourself in what might be called “the top of your profession”?

I am in no way a trailblazer in the SBC. As a matter of fact I am standing on the shoulders of men I would consider trailblazers. Men like Clarence Hopson, Sid Smith, Emanuel McCall, George McCalep, E.W. McCall and Jay Wells, just to name a few. These men were in the SBC long before me, and because of their steadfastness and sacrifice, made it possible for me to be elected as president of the SBC.

You are known to place a special focus on family in your ministry. How so?

I believe in a strong family ministry because I am the product of divorced parents when I was six years old. I personally experienced the impact of growing up in a home without the presence of a father. Not having a father in the home truly impacted my life and some of the choices I made growing up. Therefore I know how crucial and critical a strong family makes in the lives of young children. Family is certainly a priority at Franklin Avenue Baptist Church.

Also you believe that if you get the man to come to church the family will follow. What might you do to interest men in the church and reach them?

By the grace of God we have 47 to 48 percent men in our congregation worshipping every week. Reaching men has been a priority for me since I became a pastor. I am convinced if you save the man, the man will save his family! We have a number of ministries geared to reaching and discipling men, including a men’s Sunday School class, a men’s discipleship class that meets on Tuesday nights, a men’s choir that sings twice a month, a men’s usher’s ministry that serves once a month, and a men’s recreation night in our gymnasium. I am truly proud of our men’s ministry.

You were a vice president at a brokerage firm early in your career. Did that experience in the secular world influence your life in ministry?

My early bivocational work at a brokerage helped in my relationship with people. A pastor has to have good communication skills if he is going to reach people.

Are you entrepreneurial in your ministry? How is that being expressed in the congregation?

We have more than 45 different ministries at Franklin Avenue – from the nursery to our Senior Soldiers – that are geared to reach people. Most of the ministries were started by members in the congregation who had an idea that could help minister to our growing congregation. If you name it, we will probably have that ministry at FABC.

I saw a reference to your election on June 19 – or Juneteenth, it was called. What is the significance of that word for the black church?

My election as president of the SBC on June 19 was very significant to many African-Americans because of the fact that even though President Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation became official on January 1, 1863, the word did not get to the slaves in Texas that they were free until June 19, 1865, some two and a half years later. Juneteenth is the oldest known celebration in America commemorating the ending of slavery in the United States.

Your message to the SBC spoke to all races feeling welcomed in the church. Are there specific steps in working toward that?

My message that the SBC is “open to everyone” simply means that we purposely want it known that our convention is multiethnic. Because of the beginning of this convention as a result of slavery, many people felt that the convention was an all-Anglo convention. Well that is certainly not the case, and Fred Luter’s election is exhibit A. Now hopefully we can put this chapter of our history behind us and move forward to reach the lost in our world with the gospel of Jesus Christ!

How do black churches differ from Anglo churches in worship practices?

There is certainly a difference in the worship services in the black versus the Anglo services. Our music is different; our expression of vocal “feedback” during the sermon is different, as well as other practices during worship. However, that is the great thing about different worship styles. People can choose a church they are most comfortable in.

The convention passed a significant resolution addressing homosexuality. Where do you and the church stand on the issue?
Our convention in the resolution said that we believe that biblical marriage is between one man and one woman. Therefore no president, governor, mayor, elected official or, for that fact, any denomination can change what is clearly written in the Word of God. As I have often said, nothing can be politically right if it is biblically wrong.
www.Franklinabc.com

At Griffin First Assembly of God, the motto is “One church can change the world.” Randy Valimont, lead pastor since 1993, believes that when a church has a big vision with eternal impact, there are people who will want to support it with big money.

“People want to make a difference – and when they see that what you’re doing is working – they will be anxious to give to your ministry,” he says.

Valimont, who was given up for adoption at three days old – only because the planned abortion didn’t work out – spoke with Church Executive about how God values each person and how churches should fight fear with faith to advance the cause of Christ around the world.

Your church’s mission statement talks (in part) about “providing a progressive Pentecostal environment of worship, fellowship, teaching and discipleship.” What do you mean by “progressive” and how is that carried out in practical ways?

We look at all the things that are available today. We look at technology and some of the modern ways of presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ. When we use the word “progressive,” it’s kind of like with a guy who is using a hammer to put on a new roof. Well, today there’s a thing called a nail gun that can really make you go a whole lot faster, sometimes more efficiently.

What we’re trying to do is use all available tools to move the kingdom of God forward. There are some things that were done 30 years ago that won’t work today, so we want to be sensitive to that, but at the same time to minister to all the cultures and generations. I believe there are too many generational silos in the church today.

How did you reach out to the diverse cultures in your area?

First of all, I think that it comes through knowing what your community looks like. You can say you want to be a multiethnic church, but if you don’t have a lot of ethnicity in your area, then that’s not going to happen. In our area there is probably 55 percent Caucasian; 35 percent is African-American; 5 percent is Hispanic; and another 5 percent Asian. We decided that we need to make our church reflect as close as possible the racial and ethnic breakdowns in our area. When we needed a music pastor, I intentionally looked for an African-American because I realized that unless people can see diversity on the platform, there will never be diversity in the church.

We have staff from India. My background is Persian. We have African-Americans, Hispanics and generations represented on our pastoral staff. In doing that it sends a message – because you can say all you want about being multiethnic and multigenerational, but unless people see it, they really won’t believe it.

What are the other developments you’ve seen at Griffin First Assembly of God since you became the pastor?

The biggest thing is we’ve seen almost 30,000 people find Jesus as their Savior. We’ve also seen eight building projects. We’ve started a Christian high school and a counseling center that’s fully accredited.

We have a Teen Challenge Center that’s closely associated with the church. We have a college on our campus, and we’re getting ready to have an assisted living center; we will be breaking ground on that.

We have a radio and TV ministry. We’ve become more than just a local church; we’re a regional church. We have two extension campuses and a Hispanic church that meets on our grounds, which we also consider an extension. We also have an Internet church.

What were some of the challenging transitions your church has faced and how did you handle those changes?

When we came here, the average Sunday morning attendance was about 400 – now its 4,500. We’ve grown almost 1,100 percent. If you include everybody who calls this church their home that’s 10,000 people.

We started creating layers of administration where people would begin to report to others. When we had grown to about 2,000 people, we kept hitting the lid. We couldn’t get beyond that because all the information was coming to one person and he was trying to give me that information. That’s very difficult because that one person who becomes the funnel of information can choose what type of information the leader gets.

I really didn’t like the way that was going. I knew if we were going to grow I had to have more information from a broader perspective. So we brought in a consultant and he walked us through and we came up with five executive pastors. One is over business administration, one is over music and media, one is over pastoral care, one is over missions and outreach, and another one is over Christian education.

What do you believe are the biggest barriers churches face today to advance their vision?

Obviously, it’s the economy – and it has produced fear in the hearts of Americans. I think one of the biggest challenges to a local pastor is how to fight fear with faith. The key is to constantly remind our people who our source is.

Another thing is money follows ministry. If you minister to people, they will be anxious to give to your ministry. Also, money follows vision. The bigger the vision, the bigger the provision.  God doesn’t extend a church $1 million if they just need $20 to put a light in the socket. If there’s a vision, God sees that and he provides the needs of the church.

Speaking of money and faith, tell us about your participation in the Faith & Fundraising Summit.

We are asked to come alongside some of our friends and we’re really excited about it. We feel like we’ve got a really great group of people across denominational lines that are in the faith of fundraising. To be able to get the most out of what they’re doing is exciting; because the reality is most of the nonprofits in this country are having a very, very difficult time right now. We feel like this Summit is going to give people the tools to go the next level to meet the needs in their communities.

How would large churches benefit from attending the fundraising summit?

They’re going to learn how the culture of giving has shifted, how to ask for large gifts, how to find large gifts within their churches that they don’t know about, how to create a culture of generosity and giving, why major donors give, and the dos and don’ts of fundraising. Most of us in large churches don’t really know what’s there, but there are things that we will share in the conference that will help people find resources for their church.

Aside from collecting tithes and offerings, how else can churches get major financial resources?

Most church leaders don’t realize that they have major givers sitting in their church who have never been tapped. What we found out is that somebody who is a multimillionaire doesn’t usually tithe to their local church unless there’s been a personal visit or relationship with the pastor. So how do you know who those people are? There are tools that can help churches with that.

What compels donors to give substantially to the ministry?

A big factor is how you present your vision to them. People give because of two things: the person presenting it and the cause. So what we try to do is help the person presenting to understand some of the ways to connect with people. You can’t ask someone on your first meeting for a million dollars. The real key is this: before you fund-raise, you friend-raise. Some of that has been lost. Big gifts come through friend-raising.

How can churches remain faithful to biblical truths in their relationships with secular donors?

With our Teen Challenge Center, which is a drug and rehab center for juveniles ages 12 to 17, the people who give to this program want to know our success rate – and our success rate is 85 percent of the people who complete our program never again go back to alcohol or drugs. When people hear that and they know that they’re putting their money into something successful, the secular side is not as concerned about how you’re doing it. Occasionally, you’ll run into people who may not like that, but the fact that you’re helping change people’s lives is the message that you have to share.

What’s heavy on your heart as a pastor of a megachurch?

I am concerned about how the culture is having an impact on the church, instead of the church having an impact on the culture.

Also, one thing that we really want is to feel the power and presence of Christ when we come to church to worship together. People need to have an experience with God. Technology is a tool, buildings are a tool – and these are great tools – but if the lights went off, can we still have church and experience God?  www.GriffinFirst.org

_________________________________________

Faith & Fundraising Summit 2012
Conference Schedule

October/November

Griffin, GA
Faith & Fundraising
Oct. 2-3, 2012
First Assembly of God

Columbia, SC
Major Gifts Ramp-Up
Nov. 7-8, 2012
Columbia International University

Concord, NC
Health Care Conference
Oct. 8-9, 2012
College of Health Sciences

For more information, go to www.faithevent.com

Photos courtesy of Catherine Ritchie Park, www.MyLifePhoto.com.

CE Interview: Roy Gruber, Lead Pastor, The Heights Community, Ogden, UT

Roy Gruber serves a multisite (three campuses) congregation of 1,800 people in a thriving evangelistic field – Utah – where 49 percent of people within 20 miles of the church have no current involvement with faith of any kind. “My biggest underestimation in coming here was thinking that the LDS faith was merely a set of beliefs,” he says.

“It is that, but, even more so, it is a way of life, a culture. Mormonism exists as a way of life much like the Jewish faith includes culture and belief and it is difficult to separate one from the other,” Gruber, 48, says.

You said that God is doing something special in Utah right now. In what ways?

God is currently building his church in Utah in ways never before seen here. Evangelical churches in the Ogden area and the greater Salt Lake valley currently reach people with the Gospel like never before. Utah exists as the “least reached” state in the country. Only 3 to 5 percent of people have put their trust in the Jesus of the Bible, but that sobering reality is changing. Churches used to exist with a survival mentality, seeking to maintain and not to lose numbers. Today, a more missional approach of reaching out continues to grow. It’s not just one or two churches growing through conversion, but many churches of several different denominations.

Do former members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) move to evangelical churches?

Many folks who grow up Mormons and leave their faith move into the growing group of those who have no contact with any church due to feeling “burned” by their experience. Many of those who are not connected to any faith grew up in a church and have not given up on God, but they have given up on their church experience.

What approach works in evangelizing Mormons?

Event evangelism does not work in Utah, whereas a relationship found in community provides the ideal environment for people to discover who God really is and what it means to know Him.  What does work on a practical level are relationships with neighbors and coworkers. This relational reality exists around the world, but what is true in Utah is this: Without relationships there is no outreach impact. The starting of new churches also makes an impact. Right now there are a record number of church planters in northern Utah and that is a wonderful and welcome development.

What doesn’t work in reaching Mormons?

What does not work is debating over quirky doctrines of Mormonism. Many LDS folks feel embarrassed by some of the previous or current beliefs of the church. It does not make an impact to win the “sprint” of momentary debates, but impact comes on the longer road of relationships. By definition, outreach through relationships is not a strategy but an everyday way to live out faith.

Spiritual conversations happen easily in Utah. In those conversations, speaking the truth in love helps us examine the differences in faith. Our Mormon friends sacrifice much to leave the LDS faith. A good amount of that sacrifice often includes relationships.

Recapturing the vision of biblical community fills the void often left behind for someone leaving the LDS faith. We also offer a class that respectfully compares the beliefs of Christianity and Mormonism called “Fresh Start.” This class seeks to provide a safe environment for someone to examine the differences in belief with the Bible serving as the final authority.

Say you meet a Mormon in a coffeehouse, what few things can you initially say about Christianity if they express interest?

It can be helpful to share the human struggle. In Mormonism, there is little room for people to struggle and have issues. Yet, we all know that we struggle, and to share our own struggles with an LDS friend makes an impact because our salvation is not due to our spiritual progression and sin-free efforts. We also need to share God’s grace and not just leave it with our struggles. The solution to what ails us is not accomplished by us, but has already been accomplished for us by Jesus.

Do you sense a “shading” of Mormon theology in order to fit into a Christian point of view?

It is hard to know if there is a “shading” of Mormon theology as that hints at motive and we cannot know motives. There has been a change within the last generation of Mormonism toward Christianity. Joseph Smith claims that God communicated to him that all churches on earth were corrupted and he was called to reinstitute the true church on earth. For many generations, Mormons would not want to be included under a “Christian” umbrella. That has changed in our day, especially in the last 20 to 30 years. The change is clear, but the reasons for that we don’t know.

How should a Christian relate to a Mormon friend, neighbor or coworker when religion comes up in a conversation?

Expect it to come up! Mormon friends love to talk about faith. Respect them. Speak truthfully and honestly about beliefs. It’s all right to say “I don’t know.” Listen to your friend and truly seek to understand them. Share your journey toward and within faith. Ask them if they have any questions about their own faith, as often this is the case. Study those questions to see the differences between the LDS faith and historical Christianity.

How does your congregation mobilize thousands of people for ministry?

The way in which this is happening is through small groups. Groups exist in the marketplace and in communities and through that vehicle, people are realizing they are “ministers,” that is, those who meet the needs of others. All of our groups have a three-fold purpose: (1) Grow spiritually; (2) Care about each other; and (3) Serve together.

You lead a multicampus church. What does the future look like in reaching a wider region?

There are currently three campuses within the Heights Community. A vision for multisite was born out of a deeply held belief that more churches were needed in our area. Church planting is one good way to address that need. Thankfully, many church planters have come to Utah in recent years. We believed that our contribution to the effort to grow the church here existed in multiple campuses.

We possessed the resources and the passion to move in this direction. Another contributing factor was the sad reality of churches closing their doors. With vision and resources provided we were convinced that struggling churches could experience a whole new chapter of effective ministry.

In 2010 God led us to merge with a church in our own association 20 miles south of us. We also began another Spanish-speaking campus in downtown Ogden, 10 miles to the north of the original campus. We believe God will lead us to more sites in the future. Multisite ministry changes the way you think and do ministry. Don’t dabble in multisite as we need to be “all in.” It is also wise to walk through the merger experience with a consultant. Merger discussions are delicate and you are best served by someone who can be an impartial guide to all.

I understand you want to run the Boston Marathon. How close are you to being ready to do so?

My qualifying time for Boston is sub 3:25:00. This past May I ran the Ogden Marathon in 3:26:16, so I missed qualifying by less than 2 minutes.

Joe Champion, Senior Pastor, Celebration Church, Austin, TX

Joe Champion leads Celebration Church in Austin, TX, with his wife, Lori. In October 2000, they held their first church gathering in a public library – after more than a year of praying that God would put them in a great city where they didn’t know anybody and where they could start a church from scratch.

On the church’s first Sunday, there were 54 people in attendance, 50 of those were friends from New Orleans, LA, who came to support the launch.

Today, Celebration Church is a thriving congregation of more than 7,000 people, with three campuses and a regional site in Mozambique, Africa.

The first few years were tough, Champion admits. “We did it the hard way – not the ARC way. I didn’t have a core of leaders. So much of what we did was by me, my wife and our kids. We broke all the child labor laws. We wouldn’t recommend it to anybody.”

ARC, or the Association of Related Churches, where Champion serves on the lead team, helps pastors successfully plan, launch and grow life-giving churches.

While on a layover at the Houston International Airport, Champion shared with Church Executive his thoughts on what Celebration is all about and what he makes of the media frenzy over football quarterback Tim Tebow’s visit.

Describe the early years of Celebration Church.

It was slow. Every week we had fewer and fewer people. At the end of our first year, we had 78 people; at the end of year two, we had 180 people; then at year three, we had 350 people. But going into our fourth year, things began to take off.

To what do you attribute the turnaround?

We made some adjustments in our services – the length, the style. We began to have a good core of leaders. We were able to get a respectful meeting place that made it look like we were going to be a real church.

Your wife is your co-pastor. Is this role by design from the get-go or did it happen gradually?

It was by design, but she has taken an even greater role in the church’s direction, vision and administration. She’s a fifth-generation preacher’s kid and has the gifts and calling to help lead our church. She leads a lot of staff meetings and ladies’ events, and she tag-teams with me to teach sometimes. In fact, we’re starting a brand-new ministry this fall called “Two Strong,” which will help gather pastors and their wives who are interested in knowing how to function together as a team.

Celebration Church not only has multiple locations in the greater Austin area, you also have a church plant in Mozambique, Africa.

That’s correct. We planted a church in Xai-Xai two years ago and now we have several locations in the Xai-Xai region. We have incredible leaders there – Mel and Diane Stauber. They’ve done a fantastic job assimilating into the community and culture. They absolutely love and understand Africa. We have seen other churches come and feed and then they leave, but we’ve set people to stay and live there. We feed almost 1,000 kids a day, and through the feeding outreach we establish the church.

How important is it to have a global presence?

We do not want to be a church that’s just reaching one neighborhood. We want to reach the nations. You start in your own Jerusalem but then you go to the ends of the earth. We feel like Xai-Xai is at the “ends of the earth.” Having an international church allows our people in the U.S. to develop relationships with the people of Xai-Xai. It allows our people to go on trips to adopt children, do feeding programs and partner with families.

What are the most common challenges of leading a multisite church?

Finding the right leaders, duplicating the same DNA, getting people accustomed to video worship, and changing the mindset of the people. Having facilities that people know it’s not the mothership but it’s good enough. Having the same level of worship is a major challenge.

How do people at Celebration stay relational in such a big environment?

We have a monthly membership gathering; we emphasize assimilation in small groups; we hire relational pastors. Imparted into our DNA is the love for every person who walks through our doors. In that we are very intentional and part of our DNA is we would never become big in our own eyes.

How do you recruit and keep great leaders?

We have a growth track through membership. We have classes set up to help people discover their giftings and callings and find their place to serve. We find what people are passionate about and release them into ministry even if it’s outside the church. We talk a lot about how the church is like an airport. The airport is where you go to go to your destiny.  Figuratively speaking, the local church screens you for weapons of mass destruction, knives, guns or liquids – anything that would bring your life down on a travel.

The local church is also a place that validates, just as you get a ticket at the airport validating you as a traveler. I believe God’s call on the church is to help people discover where they want to go and how can they get there. Some people have long layovers, some have short layovers.

That sounds counterproductive – releasing good people instead of keeping them.

Jesus said you lose if you try to keep, and you keep it if you’re willing to lose. We find that the more we try to get people away, the more they want to stay.  We’re aware that we’re recruiting leaders in our messages – I’m always casting vision, creating opportunities for people to serve, and releasing people to birth their own ministries so they can walk in their God-given calling.

Do you hire from within or from the outside?

There are times where an expertise or experience is needed from someone who might have had a large-church experience. But as a rule we try to hire from within, or at least from our own DNA, our own family of churches and through other relationships.

Do you have a succession plan in place?

We have a plan in the event of an emergency, but I don’t have my successor designated. We’re creating a culture to birth the next generation of leaders. I agree, there is no success without a successor. It is our job to make sure we’re creating a healthy pipeline of leadership.

Celebration Church attracted the media spotlight when Tim Tebow came to your Easter service. What were the immediate results of that event?

On that day hundreds came to know the Lord. We also had quite an impact in the city. The organization of 1,200 volunteers that served on that day. The energy that our church received from knowing that what we were doing was being watched around the world. It allowed our church to see in the future that our property would be filled with a lot of people on a regular basis. The testimony that went out into the various media markets, even with the comedians the likes of Jay Leno, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. It was a lot of fun to see how God just used that. But what I loved the most was the impact on our city and what it did for the volunteers in our church family.

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Church planting in a foreign culture

When Celebration Church was looking for a pastor for their church plant in Xai-Xai (Mozambique, Africa), the person who was tasked to find the right fit was Mel Stauber, missions pastor at the time. But, as it turned out, Mel and his wife, Diane, were the right people for the job. In June 2010, the couple and their two kids left Texas – into a land where they didn’t know anyone, didn’t know the language, didn’t have transportation or a house. “We just landed with the sense that God was pleased with our obedience,” says Mel Stauber.

Mel shares some of the joys and challenges of leading an outreach in Africa:

How church planting is different in Mozambique.

Though we want to make people comfortable, our building requirements are much less than those in the U.S. People are more relational and when they commit to the church, they are really committed.  The pool of potential leaders is small. Many people lack strategic thinking skills and find it difficult to learn and try new things.

Everyday living takes much more time, leaving less time to spend with church development. Banking systems are cumbersome, often requiring long hours to handle the business side of church. We don’t rely so much on media and hi-tech devices.

On meeting the needs of the people in Xai-Xai.

We serve the community with projects such as road repair, house restorations and distribution of clothes, shoes, blankets and mosquito nets. Our partnership with Children’s Cup and Mission of Mercy allow us to care for 500+ orphaned and abandoned kids.

We provide preschool, Bible training, martial arts training, leadership training, music, and we are about to launch a program to teach kids how to sew and make souvenir artifacts to sell. We also have college funds for kids who will graduate from our program.

In the more rural area of Mavohane, we have a church campus and have recently started a school. This is the first school within four hours of walking distance for the people in that community. In about 12 years, we will see a child from Mavohane be the first to graduate from high school in that community’s entire history.

On the future of the church campuses in Mozambique.

I feel our assignment is to start 20 church campuses supporting 5,000 or more kids. In about 10 years, I hope to see the results of our work. When I see godly leaders emerge from all the church campuses and that those campuses are self-sustained and don’t need our continual support, I’ll know we have fulfilled our mission.

By Ronald E. Keener

Thirty years ago this April, a number of families joined together to form Christ’s Church of the Valley in Peoria, AZ, which now has grown to 17,000 weekly attenders. Their purpose was to impact the north Phoenix valley for Jesus Christ – “acting like a missionary,” says senior pastor Don Wilson.

“To act like a missionary means we have to think strategically about how to reach an unchurched culture, instead of thinking like a pastor where our primary concern is how to keep the church members happy,” Wilson says.

What did the church do to observe the anniversary?

We decided to celebrate by giving to the community instead of doing something for ourselves. We adopted 300 elementary schools and honored the teachers and provided paper supplies to the schools. We served 300,000 students, 11,000 teachers and 300 schools.

Was there a “train wreck” or two during those growing years that you had to get past?

I had four staff turn on me and make false accusations regarding my integrity. I went through a three-hour congregational meeting and lost my energy for ministry for about six months. They resigned and left the staff, but the hurt remained for a long time.

The congregation has a somewhat distinct marketing or growth strategy. How do you define it?

Our major growth strategy is three-fold: We want to reach the man so we can reach the whole family. Statistics overwhelmingly say that if you reach the man you will have a much greater chance of reaching the whole family. We want to reach the younger generation so we have a future.

We want to reach our neighbors so we can change the culture.

Can you expound on the challenges to the congregation you spelled out in your State of the Church message?

One of the biggest challenges for our church as we move ahead is being the church instead of just coming to church. We have to continually develop a ministry philosophy and strategy that pushes our people off of the campus and into the community and the marketplace.

What did you mean when speaking of what Jesus loves vs. what people love? Something along the lines that Jesus loves lost people, but is the church concerned?

I believe the longer the local church is in existence, it naturally wants to turn inward. We have to continually fight the consumer mentality in the church where people think it is all about meeting their needs. One way we do that is by constantly focusing on reaching people who are far from God.

How would you describe Arizona in terms of the Christian church losing its influence?

I don’t know the exact statistics in Arizona, but I have heard that between 80 to 90 percent of people in our state don’t go to church. If that is true then we have lost most of our influence and found ourselves on the defensive.

You have a story of your family moving to a new home and reaching out to your next-door neighbor.

My wife and I moved into a new home in a new community more than two years ago. My mission field is the 20 homes next to where I live. After two years of inviting my neighbor to church and trying to build a relationship with them, they came to church.

I asked them what finally got them to come and the wife made a very interesting statement. She said that you can only tell your friends “no” so many times and that sooner or later you are going to have to say “yes” to them. The moral of the story was: Don’t give up too soon. Keep planting seeds and watering and God will give the increase.

Why do many people find it hard to share their faith?

I think most people find it hard to share their faith for several reasons: One reason would be the fear of the unknown. Another reason would be they don’t know the Bible well enough. Another reason would be we really don’t think people are going to hell without Jesus. And another reason would be because they don’t know how to share a salvation message and lead someone to faith in Christ.

You’ve used the expression that the church is the visiting team and needs to be trained to be the home team? How so?

When I say the church is the visiting team, I mean that most of our culture today does not like the church. The mention of the church creates lots of emotion and hostility, much like a visiting team going to play in their rival’s stadium. Most of us as pastors were trained at a time when the church was still the home team and people respected and valued the church. So we are going to have to change our strategy to win the hearts and minds of those who oppose us.

You had a recent trip to Uganda for leadership.

I as well as our church are involved in John Maxwell’s EQUIP leadership training. I have trained pastors in Peru, Portugal and am presently training pastors in Uganda. Our church staff and key laypeople will be training more than 8,000 leaders in more than 15 different countries this year.

What is the church’s strategy for multisite?

We have a large 100-acre campus at our Peoria location that attracts almost 17,000 people on a weekend and 2,000 people on our Surprise campus. We realized that no matter how big our campus is, we can never impact the city at just one location. So we decided to be one church in many locations. We will be opening up a campus in Scottsdale this August. We currently have more than 1,500 people in the Scottsdale area that drive to CCV. If we can get a campus closer to where they live, it will be easier for them to invite their neighbors.

What are your plans for succession or transitioning? How do you feel about being a “grandfather figure” to many of your young parishioners?

Our elders have an emergency plan in place and we are also working on a succession plan together. In the last few years I find that I am being perceived by the younger generation as a grandfather figure instead of a father figure. For some reason that has allowed me to still be able to connect with the younger generation on a different level and from a different perspective. I am really a frustrated youth pastor at age 64. I love students and am honored when they ask me to speak to their student groups. www.ccvonline.com

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Being pastors of influence

I have been asked to lead what is called the Pastors of Influence in our city. This is a group of larger churches from different theological backgrounds that have decided to work together to serve our city.

We are now calling it UNDIVIDED – one church serving the valley. We want to encourage and include all sizes of churches in our city to work together to serve the needs of our city.

Our focus is on the needs of our communities. This includes three initiatives: Adopt every school, eradicate hunger, and empty foster care by serving and collaborating with existing organizations, agencies, and institutions that are doing good in the community.  — DW