CE Interview: Randy Weaver, Senior Pastor, Lone Star Cowboy Church, Montgomery, TX

“A lot of the same attitudes that horses have, people have. Some horses want to rebel, and some horses want to submit. Some horses want to learn, and some horses they won’t let anybody take care of them. They’ll try to hurt you. Some people just don’t want to serve God,” says Randy Weaver.

Randy Weaver walked into his office with a big smile and a brown bag. “I’m finishing lunch,” he announced unpretentiously. Forget about the stereotype cowboy persona: uncouth, violent, lawless. This mild-mannered cowboy pastor has a genuine way of putting people at ease – one might say a skill he honed over many years of training horses and doing rodeos.

Pastor Randy and his wife of 23 years, Darla, have traveled the rodeo circuit participating in rodeos and doing church services at the rodeos for cowboys. “They live on the road and stay on the road, so what we did was take Jesus to them,” Weaver says. The couple also ministered as racetrack chaplains at Sam Houston Race Park in Houston. Weaver says he and his wife feel responsible to people they know and understand, and that they always knew God had a place for them to land.

That place is Lone Star Cowboy Church, which Randy and Darla started in 2000 with the help of friends. Located in Montgomery city (population: 500 people) in Montgomery, Texas, the church today is a place of worship for roughly 2,000 believers in Montgomery and surrounding cities, including even those from as far as Houston and College Station.

How do you further relate horses with people?

We’re busy with people who want to seek after God. The ones who don’t want to seek Him, we’ll just let God work on them. When they’re ready, we’ll get them. I’ve trained horses all my life, and it is so applicable to people. Part of discipleship is training people to follow Christ, to be a servant. A horse with a good attitude will wait until the master comes to get him and then he’ll submit to whatever the master has for him.

Are cowboys the target group of your church?

I’m always amused at questions like this. I’ve been to a lot of ministry meetings and conferences, and they always tell you that you have to have a target group. I don’t buy into that so much. Our target group is anybody who wants to seek after God. Our mission statement is to reach, teach and disciple the wise who will seek Him. Whoever is out there, we want to reach them, we want to teach them and we want to disciple them. Just because we are a cowboy church doesn’t mean only cowboys come. We want anybody who is attracted to this type of ministry.

Why do we need a cowboy church?

We need a cowboy church because there are certain types of people who are not attracted to a conventional church. I can’t tell you how many people have come to our church that had not been in church in 10, 20, 30, or 50 years. They came and gave their hearts to the Lord. They were baptized and began to become Christ followers. If we believe that God is a God of variety, why do we try to make churches look the same or have the same programs? Ultimately what we are trying to do is to be obedient to a calling that is specific for us. I believe in innovative ways of reaching the lost. I believe excellence is non-negotiable for churches that want to be successful. But I don’t buy the idea of being culturally [relevant] like everybody thinks we ought to be.

What is different about the way you do church – music, for example?

I’m not a fan of trying to make everybody happy on the music side. I think part of worship is saying I’m going to honor the style of music that somebody else likes. We change it up, but we don’t change the songs for every service. We don’t say, “Hey, if you don’t like this style of song, stick around ‘coz the next one will be different.” We sing a lot of worship songs that you hear on Christian radio stations, but we put a country flair to these songs. We ramp up some old gospel songs. We rock the house.

In reaching the lost, you’ve got to go where they are in order to get them where they need to be in Christ. I believe churches are called to bridge gaps. Every Sunday morning, we probably give out 60 dozen donuts, free coffee and free iced tea. When we were in a tent before we built our sanctuary, we gave out about five dozens to six dozens donuts every weekend. When we moved in the new sanctuary, some people said we can’t afford to be buying all these donuts and we sure don’t need to be taking them inside with all those brand-new chairs. I said wait, wait, wait. This worked in the tent, and it will work here. Let them bring their drinks and donuts in the church. If somebody messes up a chair, we’re going to clean it. If we can’t clean it, we’re going to buy a new chair. People are more important than chairs. God gave me a word early in the ministry. He said never sacrifice people for projects.

How about your preaching style? Is there a “cowboy” flavor to it?

An advantage that I have is that I have animals. I have horses, cows and dogs. There are a lot of sermon illustrations that come from farm animals. We bring in those illustrations, as well as the illustrations of rodeos. I believe Jesus met people where they were by telling them earthly stories with a heavenly meaning, such as the parables. We really adopted that style in reaching people. We use stories about what people are going through. For example, my wife and I have tried to be transparent with our people about our own struggles in following Christ and in our marriage. I think people buy into God more when we’re honest and transparent.

We baptize new believers every last Sunday of the month. We baptize them in a horse trough. Almost every weekend, somebody gives their heart to the Lord. We invite them to come to the front. A lot of churches don’t do that anymore, and that’s fine, but it works for us.

What events and activities attract people to your church?

We have cowboy outreaches such as He Paid Your Fees, where we do roping, barrel racing and barbecue cookoffs. We give prize money, saddles and all kinds of awards at these competitions. The entry fee is they have to come to church. Other churches have softball leagues or basketball leagues. We have roping and bull rides and barrel racing – it’s different but the same.

Another major event is the Rodeo Bible Camp for our kids. We invite world-champion cowboys – people who’ve been to the National Finals Rodeo in Las Vegas, Nevada – to share their testimonies about what God has done for them. So many of our kids today have a lot of issues related to drugs, alcohol, illicit relationships, abuse, and abortion. These guys and gals that we’ve invited give their testimonies about how God found them where they were and brought them out of those issues.

One thing that’s different about our church is we have a rodeo arena. Nobody has an arena at their church. People in our church also open up their own arena for our camp. We haul off 40 to 70 horses a day to different places. It’s a great community affair. We also have an alternative to Halloween; we call it West Fest. We’ve seen hundreds of people give their hearts to the Lord at these outreach events.

You and Darla co-pastor the church. How did you arrive at this decision and how is it working?

The gifts that I don’t have, Darla has, and the gifts that Darla doesn’t have, I have. Many times we would rub against one another. Sometimes it’s a grind, because we don’t always agree. But I learned a long time ago that it’s not really about whether I agree with Darla or Darla agrees with me. Our biggest challenge is to agree with God. I have a tremendous confidence that my wife has the ability to hear from God. In such times, I have to submit to her and come under her authority.

Sometimes she has to submit to me because I get a word from God. Over the years we’ve learned how to submit to one another. But it’s something that we continue to work at because we’re still in the flesh. That’s part of what keeps us on our knees. We’re not ashamed to say that we need God’s intervention in our lives every moment, every day.

Did your church welcome and support this leadership model from the beginning?

Not so in the beginning. It’s hard for women to be in ministry. I believe in respect and honor, but not everybody believes that a woman should have authority as a pastor. It was a tough go at the beginning of the church. I take my hat off to my wife, because she persevered through those hard times. And she still has those challenges to a degree. But God has been faithful. He’s really blessed us, and that’s how we know we’re on track. Submitting to an individual who is called by God – whether it’s a man or a woman – is very close to the heart of God. A lot of women can hear from God better than men can – I don’t know why, but they do.

What kind of leaders are effective in a cowboy church?

They have to be authentic. If they pretend to be something that they’re not, the church is not the place for them – Hollywood is where they need to be. Whatever we do has to be real and authentic. Just because you own a hat or a pair of boots or a horse doesn’t make you a cowboy. We have pastors on staff who are not cowboys, but they don’t pretend to be cowboys. All we do is try to reach people by who we are. If Christ is in us, and we’re cowboys and that attracts people, then we use that to help them come to Christ. Let God use the background that He’s given you for the kingdom. I believe that will bring more success in any church.

By Ronald E. Keener

Bill Cripe’s faith journey began in high school when he attended the First Church of Christ Scientists, and on entering the Army two barracks buddies recently converted to Christ began challenging him on his beliefs as a Christian Scientist.

“I realized I needed to learn what Christian Science actually taught, and on reading Science Health, the teachings of the church, I realized that Mary Baker Eddy, the founder, redefined virtually every tenet of biblical Christianity. So while the language was similar, it had radically different meaning,” he says.

He particularly took issue with Mrs. Eddy on page 23 where she wrote: “That God’s wrath should be vented upon his own beloved son is divinely unnatural. Such a theory is man-made.” Remembers Cripe, “In one sentence she discards the very core of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus is totally redefined in Christian Science as a normal human being who ‘demonstrated the Christ principle’ or ‘Christ truth.’”

Is there a tie between Christian Science and the prosperity gospel of today?

Not an intentional tie certainly but the process of refusing the intrusion of reality in a fallen world is pretty much the same. Through positive thinking, positive affirmation or positive confession, you change what otherwise might have been a negative outcome.

You write in your book, “The prosperity gospel is the very antithesis of the gospel of Christ.”
Jesus came to have first place in everything. Because of Jesus and the Gospel, we see what is important in life; God’s Spirit empowers us to give up right to self to the glory of God. All that we do is supposed to be for the glory of the Lord. The prosperity gospel, however, is all about ME and how God exists to grant my every wish. I am at the center of everything. Even when the prosperity preachers speak of giving they do so in self-serving terms. That is, give so that God will give YOU back even MORE!

So what is the “proper pursuit of prosperity,” the title of your book?

“Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything else will be added unto you.” There is blessing in obedience but we still live in a fallen world with old natures that war against the soul. The rain still falls on both the just and the unjust and not necessarily because of a lack of faith. If we are seeking to glorify the Lord in all that we do, not so that we can enrich our surroundings, but because he is worthy of our love regardless of what he does or doesn’t do; that is the proper pursuit.

What is your main concern for prosperity preaching? You write, “One of the hallmarks of prosperity preaching is that it focuses on the shinier parts of Scripture while selectively ignoring the not-so-lustrous ones.”

It contains many partial truths and “god talk” to sound perfectly biblical. But context is often entirely ignored or even full statements are condensed to avoid the “rest of the story.” For example, “He will give you the desires of your heart,” is a nice thought; “Trust also in him, and he will do it,” is reassuring. But the Psalm contains a rather important caveat, for the complete thought says, “Delight yourself in the LORD” and “Commit your way to the LORD.” This puts an entirely different emphasis on the real promise beyond God existing to be one’s personal wish machine. People are being duped into a “religious” understanding of who God is and why they exist, but it is a bill of goods.

What do you make of Joel Osteen’s prosperity gospel?

Osteen’s variety of it is over the top as clearly revealed in Your Best Life Now. At times it is hard to tell the difference between his recipe for prosperity and the New Age Movement’s suggestion that we can create our own reality.

You write in the book, “As far as we could tell from the pages of the Bible, the only prosperity God promised was giving us our daily bread, and even in that, we needed to exercise some responsibility.” What do you mean?

The words are foundational to the understanding of what God’s promises as provision entail. To the prosperity preachers, it assumes far more than “needs.” But the prosperity gospel feeds right into the American mindset of abundance. God’s promise for provision as you trace it through the history of God’s people right into the New Testament (Matthew 6) are for the essentials of life — shelter, clothing, and nutrition.

Even in that, God still expects human responsibility and integrity to be part of the equation. It is always curious when someone walks in off the street to our church asking for “help” with gas or food. They invariably reek of cigarette smoke and they almost always have a cell phone. Even many “poor” who claim a faith in Christ have cable or dish TV, Internet, a vehicle and many luxuries of life. (I’d love to write on the “real” poor and a biblical understanding of welfare for my next book.)

Isn’t it difficult to tell people, as you write in the book, that “The hard truth is that a tendency of suffering in this life is more normal for the Christian than the promise of perfect health and extraordinary wealth”? What is the short answer to us in accepting that statement?

Ironically, this takes little convincing since that is what most people’s reality is! The prosperity gospel is utterly contrary to what most people live and experience around them, but they want it so bad that they will grasp at nearly anything.

What do you mean when writing about “Christianized junk food”?

I like a good custard-filled Danish with a cup of coffee for breakfast, extra cheesy pizza for lunch, a mocha chip grande frappacino in the afternoon, and KFC for dinner with a night cap of two scoops of ice cream with hot fudge and whipped cream. It would be sheer reverie.

And if that was my steady diet I would be malnourished and sickly.

It all tastes great but it isn’t what my body needs to remain alive and active. The prosperity message is so narrowly focused and redundant on only the very positive aspects of the Bible and they may sound great, they may make you feel good, and they may — for a season — lift your spirit. But there is so much more in Scripture that categorically warns against our earthly existence being defined by what we have.

After all, it is all destined to perish even if it is realized here and now. The prosperity preachers I listened to or read when writing my book only ever serve pretzels, cupcakes and soda consciously omitting the other side of the walk of faith. (Hebrews 11 for example.)

Once the realities of living in a fallen world set in, faith is destroyed for the only explanation is that either I didn’t have enough faith, or God just doesn’t think as much of me as he does the “blessed” one.

I understand you have a burgeoning Muslim community developing in Portland and Lewiston that may come to your town too. How should Christians relate to Muslims?

I recently spoke on this using the book of Jonah, relating the Ninevite “problem” with the Muslim “problem.” (Audio streamed at www.fefchurch.org.) Muslims are people made in the image of God for whom Christ died. I was wayward as an adherent of Christian Science and two friends who cared about me were willing to challenge me on what I believed.

Muslims have a devout faith and sincerely want to go to heaven, but in the rubric of Islam that is impossible to know and impossible to become a reality if the Bible is right — which it is.

Muslims are more difficult to reach than some because there is tremendous fear on the followers of Islam. Exploration of other faith systems isn’t tolerated. We have a couple in one of those communities who are obtaining training in hopes of returning to the Middle East.

They reside in a Muslim community of refugees trying to get to know them and to show them the love of Christ. It seems the Lord is bringing them to us!

Reaching out to Muslims as we would any unbeliever is what we are called to do. But this doesn’t mean we – as a nation – must abandon principles of common sense and fiscal viability. There is a steep cost involved and our system of welfare is not sustainable. If we are to continue helping people who truly need it we cannot welcome a limitless number of people with a limitless bucket of benefits.

As Christian Americans we are also called to participate in the freedoms we have by virtue of our system of government which means we must be involved in the political discussions, decisions and legislative processes of our country.

The influx of Muslims into some of the communities in Maine are not without challenges, both attitudinal and practical. How should a pastor prepare his congregation for a demographic change that brings Muslims to the community, to the schools, to the churches?

Jonah hated the Ninevites and with good reason. They were a violent, relentless and merciless war machine which God had used to discipline Israel numerous times in their history prior to Jonah. The last thing Jonah wanted was for them to be spared.

For many Christians, I believe Muslims are the new Ninevites. The Bible doesn’t call on us to be naive. Obviously there are Muslims who want us dead. But Muslims are coming to America. Where some are trying to restructure our culture, we can and must resist the redefining of America to a country of Sharia Law or a country having one set of rules for them and one for us.

But not all Muslims are the enemy. I am realizing that just as we have many people who call themselves Christian, and have a very warped understanding and explanation of much that is in the Bible, Muslims are no different. They have disparate views of the teachings of the Koran and what they mean. The bottom line is, I truly have to submit to the Spirit of my Lord, not to my fleshly patriotism. At the end of it all, I exist to advance the Kingdom of God, not the kingdom of America.

Your congregation’s facilities are in what is termed a “big box.” How did that come about? How is it “a beacon on the hill” for your community?

Hoyt’s Cinema divested themselves of their American theaters and the Waterville Cineplex (six theaters) went up for sale. We were in a converted duplex outside of town which had a maximum capacity of about 200 seats and we were landlocked. We scrapped our plans for building at a new location and bought the cinema.

After running into nearly unanimous opposition from our city due to the loss of potential tax revenue, the Lord gave us a way to by-pass the City Fathers and we purchased the property, retrofitting it for our purposes. Waterville is a small town and the theater is on the main drag in the heart of the business strip. For a decade leading up to this move I was a columnist for the Central Maine newspapers so my name and the church were well known before we ever moved, but we were invisible. Now it is hard not to pass the building going in or out of town. The physical visibility has been a blessing.

In what ways is the congregation engaged in its community?

From our earliest days as a small church we inserted ourselves into the community through my writing in the newspapers but also by offering a very Christ-centered community Easter and Christmas Eve service on neutral territory. For us it was in the town’s historic Opera House. Even though this bi-annual event cost our tiny church nearly $2,000 for each service, the result was “everyone” knew of us.

As a matter of course, we have sponsored events that have contributed tens of thousands of dollars to aid our community with everything from heating oil to winter clothing for families of the community. There is a beleaguered community only a mile from our church, but it is another culture. We began penetrating the community by repairing bicycles for the kids and cleaning up the neighborhood each Spring.

After a few years, we were trusted more in the community and we seized an opportunity to provide an after school program for the children that now goes through junior high. We also help with Christmas presents and other practical expressions of Christ’s love. Just this past weekend we were cited in the paper for contributing about half the cost of a 60-bed homeless shelter operated by another church in another community to our north. www.fcfchurch.org

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‘Cheap grace’ abounds in many churches

The book, The Proper Pursuit of Prosperity: Balancing the Promises of Heaven with the Experiences of Earth (Tate Publishing, 2011), highlights the most obvious abuses of the Gospel of our Lord but the concern is across the board and goes well beyond prosperous North America. Every pastor of every church wearing the name of Christ should examine the quality of his or her preaching, realizing we will be held to a stricter judgment. (James 3:1)

When the budget of the local church is already pretty tight, and the pastor’s preaching brings them to eternal punishment, or moral purity in all we do – pornography, sexual impurity, sexual perversion, addictions (which include caloric intake, caffeine, and sugar not just cocaine, heroin and marijuana and alcohol) or financial responsibility, tithing and credit card abuse — and the pastor avoids it because of the negative impact it might have on attendance, that church has just taken another step closer to the prosperity gospel.

Dietrich Bonhoffer’s “cheap grace” abounds today in many of our churches. What we are producing are pseudo-Christians who will run at the first sign of their faith costing them something.  — WEC

By Ronald E. Keener

Since Jenni Catron moved from being an artist development director in the Christian music industry in Nashville, to being executive pastor of Pete Wilson’s Cross Point Church, she hasn’t seen the two being wholly different. “I like to say that ‘I put feet to the vision,’ which is what I do now for Cross Point.”

She worked nearly nine years in the Christian music industry with some amazing artists, she says, including TobyMac of dctalk, Stacie Orrico, Audio Adrenaline, and Rebecca St. James. Her role was to be the liaison between the artist and their management team and the record company. “I was the champion of their vision inside the label, responsible for overseeing all marketing and promotional efforts.”

How did you get involved with Cross Point?

My husband and I were a part of the volunteer launch team that helped start Cross Point. It’s so rewarding to reminisce the first meeting of about 30 adults who dreamed about the potential for a new church in Nashville. For the first couple of years I volunteered but didn’t have aspirations to be on staff. I was pursuing my dream of being an executive for a music company.

When Cross Point started averaging about 500 in attendance each weekend, Pete and I began discussions of me coming on staff to oversee the administration side of the ministry as well as to lead the staff team. March 1 was my seventh anniversary on staff and it’s amazing to look back on all that God has led us through with now five (soon-to-be six) campuses and more than 4,000 in attendance each weekend. Each season has led us to growth and new opportunities we’ve never imagined.

Who was the pastor of your youth and what is your conversion story?

When I was eight years old my Great Uncle Tom invited my mom to attend church at the small Assembly of God Church where he played piano and organ. As I recall, Uncle Tom had been pestering mom to attend this church for some time and when she finally “gave in,” it really became a turning point for our family. I remember my mom walking me through the prayer of salvation in our living room shortly thereafter. Uncle Tom was the person who taught me by example to love and serve the local church. Every Tuesday afternoon I walked from school to Uncle Tom’s house for piano and voice lessons and every Sunday Uncle Tom would call upon me to sing or play in our Sunday service. Not only did Uncle Tom influence my decision to follow Christ, but he was part of shaping my earliest leadership moments.

How do you define leadership in terms of what you do in working and guiding others in this area?

Leadership is such a complicated word with a lot of different interpretations. I think the best leaders represent a balance of what I refer to as the Four Dimensions of Leadership: Visionary, Managerial, Self and Spiritual. Great leaders need to be able to cast vision for where they want to lead others, they need to be able to manage the details to get them there, they need to have self-discipline and be self-motivated, and as faith-based leaders we need to provide spiritual direction and encouragement. Every leader will naturally excel in one dimension more than the others but the best leaders understand the importance of growing in each area.

Outreach magazine named you one of the 30 emerging influencers reshaping leadership. How did you get that honor?

I’ll be honest, I have no idea! I was shocked and honored when I found out I was on that list. I do believe that God has given me a very unique voice as a woman in ministry leadership and my heart is to steward my role and influence wisely.

In what ways is your church implementing social media with the congregation?

Social media is a big part of our communication at Cross Point. Everything we do, whether sermon series, student ministry events, community groups activities, missions and outreach opportunities, etc., includes a plan for communication via Twitter, Facebook and our blogs. We’re in the process of creating an app built especially for us and we’ve begun using QR codes on our print pieces as well.

During the 2010 flood in Nashville, Twitter and Facebook were the best methods for us to get word out quickly about flood relief efforts.

What is the church’s next step in multi-sites? Merger is a growing interest; is a merger being talked about with other churches in the area?

Our vision is to reach the greater Nashville area with the hope of Christ and we’re investigating every opportunity that will help us accomplish that vision. Four years ago multi-site became a key way for us to accomplish that vision and we plan to launch campuses as long as it continues to be effective in reaching people. This year we plan to launch at least one additional campus. We have discussed several mergers but as of yet, there has not been a partnership that has been a good fit. In addition, we love resourcing other churches. Our team spends a great deal of time personally coaching and encouraging other churches, especially church plants. We are investigating creating a Cross Point Network for churches outside of the Nashville area.

What would you advise other pastors about leading campus pastors of a multi-site church?

Multi-site is messy. There is just no way around it. When it comes to leading campus pastors, I think it’s important to be sensitive to the tension and challenges that a campus pastor feels. They are responsible for casting the vision of the senior leader, while also being accountable for the day-to-day leadership of their campus.

They are constantly swapping between first-chair and second-chair leadership. That can be a very challenging place, yet it’s the reality of the campus pastor role. The more aware you can be of that tension and the more intentional you can be to keep communication open, the stronger you will be as a team.

Anything special you are doing to ensure connectedness between the campuses?

Communication is the key to effective multi-site ministry. Because all of our campuses are within a 45-minute radius of our broadcast campus, all of our staff can meet together weekly. This provides us both relational time with each other as well as time for planning, trouble-shooting and problem-solving.

We use Kulabyte for our delivery system. This system offers a “nearly live” delivering of the broadcast feed, kind of like DVR technology. One of the things I love about this is that our lead pastor can give special instructions or talk to our campus pastors on

Sunday morning during rehearsal if there is anything last minute that we need to communicate.

For a young church as yours, what is your strategic planning model? What vision are you working against?

Our Cross Point vision statement can be boiled down to three elements: discipleship, community and evangelism, and our vision is to try to maintain a balance of those three things at all times. We really believe that that balance results in a healthy church. We want a culture where our attendees are being challenged to grow in their faith, while also building relationships with other believers and purposefully inviting the unchurched.

Everything we do as a church should support one of these elements of our vision statement. Strategically we plan in 12 to 18 month increments. We’ve attempted to do five and 10 year plans but they just don’t work well for us. If we’re healthy as a church as defined by the balance of those three points of the vision, the natural bi-product is growth. We tend to be responsive to growth but proactive towards creating health.

The staff seems highly organized in terms of goal setting and accomplishment, performance evaluation, periodic goal assessment, and the like. Do you have a particular approach, or follow anyone’s model, for that?

I stole a lot of our management philosophy from the company that I worked for in the music business and I’ve adapted it to work for our team. Each of our staff creates goals every six months for their role and then they are evaluated on those goals every six months.

Additionally, we use Patrick Lencioni’s idea of a thematic goal. We create one thematic goal for the entire organization and then each campus and respective campus staff apply that goal to their individual responsibilities.

How is the economy affecting the church and giving? How have you kept the budget healthy and balanced?

Our 2012 budget is just under $5 million. We operate pretty lean, but because of that value we have been fortunate to weather some of the economic ups and downs of the last few years. While we have not met our budget goals every year, our team does an amazing job of keeping expenses under actual receipts. We’ve finished every year of Cross Point’s history in “the black” and we have not had to lay off any staff due to budget reasons. Fiscal responsibly is a huge priority to our entire team and everyone takes their role in that very seriously.

How do you see the power of branding as expressed at Cross Point, and how that makes a difference when new people are deciding to remain at Cross Point?

Because my background is in brand management and marketing, I think it’s a very important for every individual and organization to understand the power of their “brand.” I know people sometimes wrestle with the idea of brand development for the church, but branding really boils down to understanding your strengths and gifts and doing your best to be consistent in them. At Cross Point we’re very intentional to be true to the Cross Point brand. I want our attendees to feel confident that if they invite a friend to any of our Cross Point campuses, they can be sure the experience will be consistent. We know that we’re not the only church or the best church in town, but we do believe that God has called us to a unique style of ministry that reaches the people we are best gifted to reach.
I’m told you like drinking tea?

Oh, I love tea! I’m sure that I was supposed to be born British. I really drink all different varieties, but a good Rooibos loose leaf tea with a hint of orange is my favorite. www.CrossPoint.tv

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Cultivate her’ mentors

Jenni Catron began an organization called Cultivate Her in working with and mentoring women leaders. Here she explains its purpose:

A few years ago a woman leader that I really admired challenged me with this: “Jenni, how you steward your influence as a woman leader at Cross Point directly impacts every woman who comes behind you.” That might seem rather obvious but it was a wake-up call to me of the importance of how I steward my place of leadership.

I think sometimes we as leaders underestimate how much others are watching us.  For me, I had lulled myself into a place of thinking that I had to focus on my own growth and that I wasn’t ready to develop others. I felt too young and inexperienced.

That challenge prompted me to start Cultivate Her as a place where I could share what I was learning and encourage other women leaders along the way. Our goal is to connect, engage and inspire women leaders to help them feel confident to lead well, wherever they lead.  I meet locally with women leaders in Nashville, we use the blog for creating conversation for women leaders around the globe, and we’re working on ideas for coaching and mentoring opportunities this year. www.cultivateher.com

By Ronald E. Keener

John Ortberg: Senior Pastor, Menlo Park Presbyterian Church, Menlo Park, CA

Pastor for eight years at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church in the San Francisco Bay Area, John Ortberg observes, “There’s a very strong performance culture out here, but that includes a terrific amount of pressure to maintain an image, and so there are vast amounts of anxiety, addictions, difficulties, emptiness, exhaustion, just about an inch under the surface.”

“The biggest misconception that people have of the Silicon Valley is that people have their lives together and don’t really need God,” Ortberg, 54, says.

It’s been said that the Bay Area is 90 percent unchurched, de-churched, or anti-church. How does a church engage a culture like that?

One of the ways that our church is seeking to reach the Bay Area has been by opening up different venues and sites so that we can try to penetrate more areas. We’re also working very hard on a project called Catalyst, which is looking at how do we unleash rather than bottleneck folks in ministry.

We have a terrific team of people who are doing research and looking at the whole area of mission shaped communities, and strategies to tap into the innate motivations, passions, and gifts of people.

Who was the pastor of your youth and what is your conversion experience?

When I was growing up in Rockford, IL the pastor of our church was Harold Christensen. His wife Evelyn Christensen recently passed away at about the age of 90. She wrote a book called, What Happens When Women Pray. I grew up in a Christian family and accepted

Christ when I was a seven-year-old boy, and it’s still a very vivid memory for me.

If you had not chosen ministry, what might your profession have been?

If I had not gone into pastoral ministry, I probably would have gone into something in the field of psychology. I received my M.Div. from Fuller Seminary and a PhD in Clinical Psychology, but it turns out I’m a really bad therapist. However, I’m very interested in teaching and writing, and I probably would have gone in that direction.

What is it like living in such an affluent area?

The Bay Area is a very stimulating place. There are lots of things going on educationally with Stanford University next door, in terms of business with Silicon Valley, and a tremendous amount of ethnic diversity. And also there’s a fair amount of spiritual resistance to institutional Christianity, particularly as you get close to the city of San Francisco.

What do you think is your calling to address this population?

My preaching has probably moved in the direction of being somewhat more oriented towards an intellectual approach to the faith, simply because education tends to be such a kind of prominent aspect of life out here.

Did you ever meet Steve Jobs or interact with his staff?

I never did meet with Steve Jobs. Ron Johnson, who reported to Steve and is a guy who launched and led the Apple Store movement, and is now the CEO of JC Penney, attends our church and is a good friend and remarkable leader and great Christian.

Your wife Nancy is nearly as well known as you are. Have you ever thought of yourself as a “celebrity” pastor?

Nancy Ortberg is a force of nature in her own right. I think that in general our culture tends to be celebrity oriented in ways that are pretty negative and unfortunately the church always wrestles with mirroring its culture too much. Political issues are very important but when the church narrows its appeal or identifies too heavily with one political party or ideology it can make people close the door to Jesus who otherwise would leave it open.

I was always confused about the circumstances of your coming to Menlo Park. Were you the senior pastor or was there a transition of sorts?

Circumstances of my coming to Menlo Park were a bit complex because of Presbyterian polity. I initially came as a teaching pastor, and there were three or four transitional steps to becoming senior pastor, which is my current role.

I’ve been fascinated with what is called nominal Christianity — people who love the label but don’t wish to live the life. What do you make of nominal Christians?

Nominal Christianity is a great problem in our day and certainly in our area. If you think about the early century of the church, there was no such thing as a nominal Christian because the cost of becoming a Christian was so high.

And then, after the conversion of Constantine when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, the cost for becoming a pagan actually became higher than the cost of being a Christian, so then you get a lot of nominal Christianity. That still is a problem in our culture and one of the great challenges is how we clarify the cost of following Jesus without giving into legalism or spiritual elitism.

Menlo Park is now multi-site; what have you learned from going with this approach?

We actually had long conversations this last week about how concretely we move forward as one movement with different expressions, trying to do the dance of independence, autonomy, togetherness, unity, and relational connectedness, which is a very complex one and is a constant learning process. Probably my most recent learning is a re-appreciation for the importance of relational connectedness, particularly for leaders.

What is the importance of training leadership?

Leadership is hugely important. We were talking about Nancy a moment ago, and developing and training and raising up leaders is one of her great passions. Helping people who have leadership gifts in recognizing their giftedness, and embrace them and use them in the service of Christ, is one of the great needs of our day. I think generally churches are becoming more aware of the need for leadership identification, recruitment and training.

How do you get your inspiration for your books?

I would say that writing for me flows very much out of doing church ministry. People ask me, from time to time, do you ever think about not working as a pastor at a church and just speaking and writing. For me, the discipline of regular sermon preparation, the creation of fresh material, being part of a community, helps me to stay learning and refreshing myself, and I think that informs my thinking and my communicating.

So there’s a close connection between preaching and writing. Preaching also gives me a feedback loop. If I just write something, I might think it’s good, and it’s really only the caffeine. When you have to stand up in front of a group of people and say stuff you find out from their faces and bodies if it’s actually connecting, or if it’s not being helpful at all.

That actually helps a lot when it comes to sitting and writing material. I’m actually just in the process of finishing a book about the impact Jesus has had on history. Its been a wonderful project and a different one, kind of a stretch for me.

Who are your favorite authors when you read for pleasure?

I love to read C.S. Lewis and I love the writings of Frederick Buechner. Dallas Willard has influenced me more than any other single human author or thinker. Richard Foster, Henry Nouwen, Thomas Merton, Ken Bailey and N.T. Wright would also be on that list.

How do you manage your time, and discipline your life?

Saying “no” is one of the most important disciplines in my life. I have regular meetings with Linda Barker, who works with me administratively, and with my wife, to go over schedule commitments and most of that involves saying “no.” I fight my own optimism when I’m in a good mood and I fight guilt when I say too many “no’s.”

What does the near future look like for the Ortbergs?

For Nancy and me, the next five to 10 years we hope will involve being right here in Menlo Park and serving at our church, growing in love for God, and each other, and our community, and being able to serve the broader church together. We have also, over this last year, gotten into surfing so we’re hoping to do more of that and not get eaten by a shark.  www.MPPC.org

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Spiritual formation through Monvee

Monvee is an attempt to leverage technology to do spiritual formation. It’s a way for people to assess what their own spiritual wiring is, their spiritual temperament, pathway, signature sin, learning styles, and so on, so they can know better how to grow spiritually.

It really grew out of Heartland Community Church, a group of folks that I know in my old hometown of Rockford, IL. It can be helpful for churches in a single site or multi-site because it’s really geared towards helping people get a roadmap of their individual spiritual lives.

I think that spiritual formation and church growth or evangelism are really connected with each other. Jesus is the most spiritually mature person who ever lived and he’s also the most evangelistically effective person who ever lived.

I think sometimes we confuse spiritual formation with “churchliness” and sometimes we confuse church growth or evangelism with sheer numbers. Either of those problems will get us off track, but if we’re growing closer to God it will make our lives more winsome to those around us. Of course some people will always be turned off by the actual Gospel itself, but I want to make sure it’s the Gospel that’s turning them off and not me.  — JO www.monvee.com

Ken Whitten: Senior Pastor, Idlewild Baptist Church, Lutz, FL

Ken Whitten admits that his weakness can be that he allows too many opinions to come to the table. “I am a collective leader, which means I detest making decisions or casting vision from a vacuum.” He sees his church, Idlewild Baptist Church, a 12,000-member church in Lutz, FL, as being pastor-led, deacon-served, ministry-organized and church-approved.

A growing new campus of 143 acres — in fact, they have relocated twice in 12 years — and 725 new members just last year, it is an exciting time for the congregation. In fact “exciting” is the slogan for the congregation. “’Exciting Idlewild’ was a name I joyfully and gratefully inherited more than 22 years ago,” Whitten, 57, says. “The former pastor and staff coined that phrase because that’s who we are. I have always said jokingly that my fear is being sued for false advertisement. But Idlewild is a body of believers who are excited about loving and serving Jesus.”

Who was the pastor of your youth and what is your conversion story?

My pastor growing up was my Uncle Archie Grigg, a man who was a soul-winner, loved God’s Word, and taught me to love Jesus. I was saved at age 7, but much like being married, I had so much to learn. It seems back then all the sermons had only five themes. We heard a different sermon each week, but when they were finished, each could fit in any one of these categories: Hell’s Hot – Sin’s Dark – Judgment isSure – Heaven’s Sweet – and Jesus Saves.

At age 7 I knew I was a sinner and in need of a Savior. I gave all I knew of me to all I knew of him. He took me then and has kept me now.

What a Savior!

Who were your parents, and was there any one thing in your family that made you the person you are today?

I was the youngest of six children born to my parents, Casey and Elsie Whitten. If you looked closely, you could tell I was the youngest because my cheeks were pinched more than all my siblings. Dad went home to be with the Lord in 2004 at age 86. Mom is now 93. She’s my greatest prayer warrior. Both my parents were people of humble means. My dad taught me to tithe, and mom taught me to read God’s Word daily.

Dad was a deacon, and mom was everything a pastor would want in a church member. I am a man who loves Jesus, loves the church, and loves people because of them. Going back to church on Sunday evening and Wednesday night was never up for a vote. Because the “Wizard of Oz” came on TV on Sunday night, I never saw the entire movie until I was in college. We were poor from the world’s standard, but in heaven’s economy, very, very rich.

You appear to be a very approachable, relational man. Is there any one thing that accounts for that today?

Perhaps growing up with six siblings and with three older sisters, and at times feeling like I had four moms – may have contributed to me loving people, wanting to “mother” them a little, and be their friend. My dad was a lot like my grandmother (his mother): humble, friendly, respectful of others, and he knew how to love and get along with people.

Obviously, family plays a big part, but faith does as well. God’s grace is overwhelming to me. At the foot of the cross, it’s level. No one struts in his presence. The more I look into God’s Word, the more it looks and lives into me. Paul said it better than me, but it’s how I want to live: “For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.” (2 Cor. 4:5, NKJV) (Emphasis added.)

You’ve been called “sincere, genuine and transparent” and “not a preacher; he’s a people’s pastor.” Do you see yourself that way?
At this question I feel a little like the man who received a medal for being humble. He wore it so they took it away from him. I try to be those things, but that’s not how I would want to describe myself. It is true – I love people, sometimes too much because I’ll make myself sick to make others well. That’s not good. I can say this: If that’s how people see me it is because they do see Jesus in me because surely he is all of those things.

Is there anything that can really make you angry?

I always marvel at the emotions of Jesus Christ because he never was angry for himself. He became angry at how poor people were treated, how his Father was not revered and worshipped, how religious rulers became more important than real relationships. He was angry at injustice, prejudice, sin and Satan.

I get angry when a goal of mine gets blocked. My anger is not always righteous. When I do not feel respected at home,

I get angry. When I see people use the church, but not love the church,

I get angry. There’s only one letter different in “anger” and “danger.” I want to be “good and mad.” I want to “be angry and sin not.” But truthfully some days my anger is so self-serving and immature, I’m ashamed when I get angry.

I’m a lover, not a fighter, so anger isn’t something you see a whole lot from me. I love life, people and the Lord too much. Life’s too short to be angry. My wife, Ginny, always says, “Dogs get mad, you shouldn’t.” So true.

You mention family as being important to you. I know you take a long vacation annually with the entire extended family at Sanibel Island (far right photo). What takes place, other than relaxation, during that time?

Each of our four children – two sons, two daughters  – and their spouses are responsible one day for the evening meal, family games and devotions. We laugh a lot, and whether it’s golfing, fishing, shopping or just hanging out at the pool or the beach, one thing is for sure, it’s a sweet week of being with just family.

Is there anything you and Ginny have done over the years of your kids’ growing up that has made “family” so special — and apparently so successful?

Our children’s walk with God is more of a tribute to their mom than their pastor. As you know in ministry, family time and church time can really be a competition for one’s devotion and heart. Never, and let me say it again, never have I heard Ginny say to the kids, “Well, your dad can’t be there because he has a ‘church thing’ to go to.” Or, “You know your dad, church always comes first.”

First of all, she knew that wasn’t true. There have been times my wife has taken second place, and over the years, I’ve learned to repent and change that, but Ginny and I both have always felt our kids belong to the Lord and to us and not to the church. Years ago I made a pact with my kids: You come hear me preach, and I’ll be there at your swim meets, ballet recitals, baseball games, soccer games, and band and choir concerts. They’ve kept their end and still do, and I have as well. Ginny is a great mom, and while they know their parents aren’t perfect (far from it!), we try to be the real deal. My kids are the real deal too – all four of them and their spouses.

Our October issue carried a story about the difficulties that pastors’ wives have in the shadows of their husbands’ ministries. Was there anything that you and Ginny talked about or agreed to early in your marriage/ministry that has carried both of you though the strains of ministry that so many other pastors face — not always successfully?

Perhaps not consciously, but I can tell you this. Ginny has never seen herself living in anybody’s shadow, especially mine. I am free to be available to meet our church’s needs and our staff’s desires because of her. She makes it easy to do that. We are a team. We are both called.

She is my greatest cheerleader and a great prayer warrior. She knows when I’m quiet, I’m thinking – probably about church. She sits in different locations in church, she sings in the choir and is very active in the body, but if faced with the choice to hear her husband preach or watch our son pitch, guess what she’ll choose? A sermon CD only costs $4.00. She’s probably heard that one before, but there’s only one high school baseball career. She’s going with my blessing to represent us both. Only difference is — she won’t yell at the umpire like I might. Oh yeah, that’s another thing that can make me mad.

I count 126 deacons of the church in the ministry plan; what functions do so many people carry out? Where are the month to month decisions made?

Our deacons play a vital role in this body we call Idlewild. They are not a board – we do not find that in the Bible. In fact, the only board in the Bible is the one Paul floated on in the Mediterranean. They are servants. They serve widows in our fellowship, and they do something else. They give great collective counsel to their pastor. It’s a great marriage when you have a group of men who are close to the church family and serve them; why wouldn’t you want to know their answers to the questions of “Are we going to fast, too slow? Are we okay? Are we clear in communicating the vision? Is there something that needs changed?”

We have very few committees, but three very busy committees in our structure — Personnel, Finance and Stewardship, and Missions.

Deacons trust staff. Staff trusts committees. Committees trust staff, and the church trusts staff and structure.

For a physical plant that large on 143 acres, is there a management structure that you use to get the work done in an orderly fashion? Do staff have annual goals to meet?

We have 22 pastors and an incredible staff of managers and directors that I have the privilege of doing life with and who are the arms and legs of our ministry. We have a Leadership Team comprised of department heads that meet weekly for two hours. Additionally, we have a weekly two-hour pastoral staff meeting for encouragement, biblical instruction and communication, and a monthly two-hour M2 meeting (ministers and managers) for vision casting, planning, and settling staff and scheduling conflicts. Then monthly our entire staff gathers for our All Staff Breakfast – we call this meeting our Monthly Rally. We publish the Rally Rag listing birthdays, anniversaries and special recognition for the month. We have door prizes, reward staff with praise and encouraging cards, and sometimes monetary gifts as well. Rally stands for R – Recognition; A – Appreciation; L – Laugh; L – Look Ahead; and Y – Your Pastor.

How many direct reports to you have? How close are you to most of the decisions, or are you more engaged with the vision of the church and what is coming on line?

My executive pastor, Brian McDougall, reports to me, and I am indirectly responsible for all of our pastoral staff. They know I am available to them, and Brian knows they have access to me any day, any time, and anywhere. One of the things we are getting better at every day is evaluating everything we do after we do it. What worked? What would we do different? What didn’t work? Why did we have the response we had? Who did well? Who did not?

You’ve served on the SBC’s International Mission Board and other missions units. Your church budgeted last year for $1,840,070 for missions work. The Great Commission Resurgence of the SBC has brought recommendations for evangelization. What do you see being accomplished there now that will be meaningful?

One of the highlights of my life was serving as a trustee for eight years with our International Mission Board. I was privileged to serve on the Great Commission Resurgence Task Force (GCR). For the GCR to be effective, it has to be more than a byline or a slogan. Churches have to catch the vision for the thousands of people groups without the gospel and sacrifice personal and corporate wealth to get the gospel to penetrate lostness. Two things have always brought Southern Baptists together – missions and evangelism. I see great days ahead for the SBC in those two areas.  www.Idlewild.org

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When the congregation has ‘celebrity’ members

Tony Dungy was very active while he was head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He and Lauren served in our preschool ministry, served ice cream at Vacation Bible School, helped with our recreation ministry, and when we planted a church in central Tampa, they became very active there. Their children are active in our Saturday recreation ministry, and his kids sing in our Children’s Choir programs on Wednesday evenings. Tony and Lauren have never seen themselves as celebrities, only as servants. They are the real deal.
I feel a little uncomfortable talking about high profile people who attend Idlewild. James reminds us the ground at the foot of the cross is level.

One great characteristic about Idlewild is that even though the Yankees Spring Training is in Tampa and people like Andy Pettitte, Joe Giraldi and Mariano Rivera have attended, and people like Lou Piniella, who is a member and active here, we do not get star struck, and those folks are treated like everyone else. That’s the way the Lord wants it, they want it, and we want it. — KW

By Ronald E. Keener

When Alan Danielson, 39, spoke to his congregation at New Life Bible Church for the first time as its senior pastor earlier this year, he included comments about small groups. By his third week he had his first small group campaign, and within his first six weeks at the church they had nearly 60 percent of the church in groups. “To me, groups are not a program, they are how we do church,” he says. If small groups are on a fast track at New Life, you might expect it of the pastor who had much to do with the groups strategy at LifeChurch.tv in Oklahoma City, where he worked with Craig Groeschel for four years.

“When I started, LifeChurch.tv was running 9,000 per week on five campuses, all in Oklahoma. During my four years there – I left in 2009 – the church grew to more than 25,000 on 13 campuses in six states, the largest in Oklahoma City with nearly 7,000 and the smallest in Albany, NY, at about 300,” he says.

In his first 18 months he was the LifeGroups pastor on the OKC campus, responsible for all aspects of the small group ministry on that campus. Then for six months the roles for groups and missions were combined, making him responsible for all groups and local mission efforts from the OKC campus. Then he became executive director of LifeGroups and was responsible for all group ministries on all 13 campuses of the church.

Are there foundational principles you worked from in groups development?

Our strategy for growth was nothing original to us. We leveraged the campaign method that Saddleback innovated during the 40 Days of Purpose craze. Twice per year Craig would have a group-centric series. We’d provide video curriculum for leaders, ask everyone to get in a group, and it worked well for us.

In terms of foundational principles: I couldn’t articulate it at the time, but looking back in hindsight, we structured the small group ministry for numerical growth rather than control. I once heard Rick Warren say: “You can structure for growth or you can structure for control, but you can’t structure for both.” That statement helped me recognize that we habitually structured for growth. Whenever growth would stall, it was because we were trying to structure for control.

Here’s what I mean: Structuring for growth means removing obstacles that inhibit growth. The results of such methods are explosive numerical expansion which is exciting, but messy. Structuring for control means putting some barriers in place that will slow numerical increase, but the trade off is less messy.

Do you have a knack for growing groups and campuses?

I don’t know that I have a knack for growing groups, campuses or churches. I have a knack for relationships. I have a gift for remembering lots of names and trying to make as many people as possible feel valued. As a result, lots of people will follow my leadership. It’s the abilities of those who I led and lead that grew the ministries I was a part of and that grow them now.

Can you apply the practices of managing and leading to growing small groups?

I sometimes get annoyed by the fuzzy “managing” and “leading” line. All leaders have to manage, and all managers have to lead. I believe that anyone in leadership has to at least be marginally capable in three areas: casting vision, executing strategy and fostering relationships. I don’t think these three areas can be compromised — ever! Few leaders/managers are going to be naturally gifted in all three areas, but all people in leadership must be able to do all three.

I explain this in detail in my eBook, Triple-Threat Leadership (only available on www.3threat.net), but the gist is this: Every leader has strengths and weaknesses. Wise leaders play to their strengths and downplay their weaknesses. However, a weakness in casting vision, executing strategy or fostering relationships is not just a weakness: it’s a liability. Leaders do not have the luxury of playing to their strengths while ignoring their liabilities. Leaders must learn to implement all three basic leadership skills on some level.

I, for example, lean heavily on my abilities to foster relationships and cast vision. Yet no matter how well I do those two things, it is inexcusable if I don’t execute! Talking about the goal (vision) and having fun with people along the way (relationships) will never get things done (execution). The effective leader must do all three.

These facts of course apply to small group ministry all the way from the pastor down to the individual small group leader.

What might have been a fumble on your way to learning groups management?

After our first initial surge in small group growth at LifeChurch.tv, I sort of panicked: “What if a Lesbian Skin Head decides to start a group? Before we do this again, I need to have some leadership training meetings to keep that from happening!” When I implemented those training events before someone could start a group, our ability to grow immediately halted! That’s when I realized that I needed to let go and structure for growth. Thankfully, we never had a Lesbian Skin Head start a group, but we had some pretty unqualified people start them. This was hard to address and sometimes a group had to be “put down,” but 99 percent of the time the right people self-selected for leadership.

Based on that experience I’d say do some soul searching and decide whether growth or control resonates most with you. Then commit to the side you lean toward!

What have you learned from other churches when consulting; what couple issues do they often address with you, and how did you resolve them?

One of the biggest eye-openers for my clients is the growth/control question. Sometimes it takes me half a day to sell them on the idea because they want to be able to value both equally, but once they make up their minds to lean heavily in one direction or the other, suddenly they gain momentum.

In my consulting experience, church leaders often start with the wrong questions. They start out by asking questions like:

• How do I double groups?
• How can I recruit coaches/leaders?
• How do I train leaders?
• How do I know what curriculums to suggest/use?

It’s only natural, because these questions reveal their most urgent need/want. However, our most urgent need isn’t always the first thing to address. All of these questions are procedural questions, and when church leaders ask procedural questions, they tend to cut and paste the next “hot strategy” from some superstar church. If the strategy works, they are glad, but they don’t really know why it worked. Inevitably, when a cut-and-pasted strategy doesn’t work for them, they blame the process and move on to the next “hot strategy.” The root of the problem is that they are asking how instead of why questions. The questions they should start with should investigate their own church DNA and structure. They should ask questions like:

• What’s keeping our group ministry from growing?
• Why can’t we seem to hang on to coaches?
• What are we doing in our ministry that runs against the cultural DNA of our organization?
• If I were fired, what would my replacement do?
• What do I know in my heart that I should be doing that I really don’t want to do, or I’m just not good at?

These questions don’t start with process. They start with self-evaluation. Understanding the nature of your own church culture, your own leadership strengths/weaknesses, and your own biases will explain a lot about the things that you are frustrated with and help you identify steps you need to take in order to gain momentum.

What is it about small groups [“the little church”] that is so important today in large and megachurches? Is it mostly about growth?

This is an interesting question. Sadly for many pastors the small group question is just about growth. They see small groups as a way to close the back door of the church or plug the drain in the bottom of the tub. This is tragic because what small group leader ever signed up just to keep people from leaving the church? Isn’t discipleship about much more than that? Inevitably, if groups are just a keep-people-from-leaving-tool in a church, that church will never have a thriving group ministry. I believe this is why many pastors are saying small groups don’t work; they tried it to keep people from leaving, the ministry never took off, people left, so groups must not work.

The problem is much deeper than small groups. It’s about discipleship. Are we really committed to getting people into Christian relationships? Discipleship in the New Testament never happens through programs; it always happens through relationships. Healthy small group ministries never have church growth as their main goal. Their main goal is personal, spiritual growth. This kind of growth doesn’t come in a vacuum and it certainly doesn’t come in a class. It comes when real people connect with other real people who are pushing each other to become like Christ.

How do you get groups to go from sitting to serving?

A key for us at LifeChurch.tv was merging the groups and missions positions on staff. Our slogan became “Everyone in a LifeGroup, every LifeGroup on mission.” This caused us to set measurable goals regarding groups on mission. It caused us to start creating curriculums and resources about groups being on mission. And it caused us to talk about mission all the time to our groups!

Simply put, I tell my clients who want their groups to serve, “Mission has to be in your heart, on your lips and in your strategy.” By “heart” I mean the pastor or ministry leader must be passionate about mission. By “lips” I mean that the pastor or ministry leader must talk about mission to their groups all the time. By “strategy” I mean the ministry leader must create systems and set goals that facilitate mission.

You are new to your current church, so how will groups work into the strategy at New Life Bible and its outreach?

To me groups are not a program, they are how we do church. Missions are not “projects” in our group ministry; groups are how we do missions!  From moment one, the definition of a “group win” is for the group to identify its unique mission and act on it together. Of course, some groups understand this better than others, but all of our groups serve on mission at some point because it’s a clear expectation. So you could say that outreach is done through our groups.

A few of our small groups have taken on the task of building, running and maintaining a food pantry in our church. They are passionate about making this happen and I couldn’t be more proud of them! Another group organized an interview skills coaching event where they taught unemployed people how to improve their resumes and their interview skills. They’ve gone on to help several of those people find jobs. It’s been really exciting to watch.

This fall we had another groups campaign and we partnered with Family-id.com to produce a four week curriculum about discovering, developing, living out and passing on your family’s vision, mission and values. We’re the first church in history to use this material for a church-wide campaign encompassing Sunday messages, groups and family ministry. I think every church in the world needs to do this kind of campaign.

Family ID is a powerful tool for making the family the primary discipleship engine of the church rather than the children’s ministry. At New Life, our goal is to have a dynamic family ministry rather than a children’s ministry. Again, tons of people stepped up, started groups, joined groups and lives were changed! This created lots of crossover between our groups ministry and our family ministry, as well as lots of synergy. From now on Family ID will be a cornerstone in our family ministry as well as our small group ministry!

You’re commented about “the pain I felt for many of my client small group pastors.” What is their frustration?

The biggest frustration for thousands of small group pastors is the fact that their senior pastor doesn’t truly buy in to groups. Their senior pastors see groups as a way to keep people from leaving the church, so it’s just another church program. I’m passionate about telling senior pastors that they should expect nothing from their group ministries until they themselves completely commit to them.

The senior pastor sets the tone. Our church in six weeks launched groups and got nearly 60 percent of our people in groups! This is because I’m the person who has most bought into our group ministry. I lead a group. I talk about them all the time. I depend on my group. I love my group. As a result our people are following my lead. You might say I’m the Senior Pastor of Small Groups in
our church.

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Small groups at Lifechurch.TV

At LifeChurch.tv I was responsible for providing direction, support, and resources for the overall small group ministry. Each campus had a LifeGroup/Mission Pastor (LGMP) and it was my job to set the overall course for all 13 campus group ministries, support the campus LGMPs, and give them the resources (curriculum, videos, print materials, etc.) that they needed to succeed.

We had more than 1,000 groups and we provided weekly downloadable curriculum that aligned with Craig Groeschel’s sermons, as well as video curriculum every week. The downloadable print curriculum always aligned with Craig’s messages, but the video curriculum didn’t always align with his weekend talks.

The point of both resources was to make it easy for a leader to facilitate discussion in their groups. The .pdf discussion guides were easy to use because they related directly to the previous weekend’s teaching. The videos made it easy for leaders who were reluctant to “teach,” so the video did the teaching for them.    — AD

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‘Neighborhood model’ for small groups

Christ’s Church of the Valley in Peoria, AZ is an interesting case study. They are using the “Neighborhood Model” that Randy Frazee wrote about in his book, The Connecting Church. The Neighborhood Model sometimes gets a bad rap because it didn’t work for Willow Creek. Since so many have looked to Willow for years regarding groups, they immediately throw out what didn’t work there.

This is truly sad because the Neighborhood Model is ideal for churches with the right DNA. When I was working with CCV they had decided that their church did two things: The weekend and neighborhood groups. They used the New Testament and Frazee’s book as their blueprints, and the results were great.

I was excited to see this under-utilized approach gaining such traction. CCV didn’t come to me with process questions (how questions), instead they came with DNA and evaluation questions (why questions). It was one of the healthiest and most fun exchanges I’ve ever had with a client.  — AD

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Keeping track of the groups

The software my church uses is ChurchTeams. It’s the tool I’ve found churches are most satisfied with for group management. Unlike many group management tools, it allows you to track attendance without it feeling like you’re implementing some kind of control.

Attendance reporting happens via a weekly email to leaders, but the reason they fill out the reports is not primarily attendance.

Instead it is a communication tool from the leader to the entire group. They share prayer needs, communicate about mission opportunities, note the next meeting’s activities, and then send it to the entire group. Those group communications are then copied to the person who leads the small group ministry. The system automatically gathers attendance information from the emails and reports that monthly to the small group ministry point person.

ChurchTeams reporting is a system that provides a simple platform for the group to communicate regularly. This makes the group leaders feel that the main benefit of the software is for them rather than the church. The side benefit of this is that the church gets the attendance data without it feeling like a burden to the small group leader.   — AD

Randy Frazee: Senior Minister, Oak Hills Church, San Antonio, TX

Randy Frazee is, in the kindest use of the word, obsessed about the “one story.” Marketed as The Story, the one story, he says it puts key stories and select scriptures of the Bible in chronological order to read like a novel with 31 chapters. He started teaching it when he was teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church, and it was his first message series when he came to Oak Hills Church in 2008.

At Willow he says “The people ate it up,” and at Oak Hills, where he works alongside long-time pastor and author Max Lucado, the church grew 23 percent. “The entire experience speaks the love language of everyone in the church, from the young to the old, from the seeker to the mature believer. People want to understand God’s Word. The Story helps lay the first foundation block: experience the one story God is telling.”

Frazee, 50, grew up in an unchurched home. He was invited by a neighbor two doors down who worked with his Dad to a summer Vacation Bible School. “I came to Christ and haven’t looked back,” he says.

Today he has a burden on his heart for biblical literacy, but The Story goes beyond that too, and Zondervan is bringing out this September his telling of The Heart of The Story, which is one of 43 integrated products built around The Story experience.

What started you on this “one story” journey?

I first saw The Story product in 2005 and knew immediately it was something I was searching for. Biblical literacy was a problem back in 2005 and it is even a bigger problem today. One of the foundational experiences folks need early in their spiritual journey is to understand the one story of the Bible — not just understand it but experience it for themselves.

Our Bibles are organized topically and it makes it very difficult for a person to capture the flow of the one story that God is telling. Unabridged chronological Bibles are great but not very accessible for the average church member and seeker. The Story puts key stories and select scriptures of the Bible in chronological order and it is designed to read like a novel with 31 chapters.

I knew if I could put the support resources around it – for children, students, adults – we could offer it up as a church campaign like none other.

When I came to Oak Hills in 2008 I pitched the idea to Max that we make this our first series. The church grew from about 7,200 to 8,856 when we went through The Story.

What is the state of biblical literacy in America?

The Story is not just about increasing biblical literacy but it really does an incredible job of doing just that. Many people see the Bible as a collection of hundreds of ancient, unrelated stories. The Story helps folks see how every story is unfolding to tell God’s one story of getting us back — from the Garden to Noah, from Israel to the coming of Jesus, from Jesus to the starting of the church, from the church back to the Garden again, on the new earth.

George Gallup said this back in early 1990s: “The churches in America face no greater challenge … than overcoming biblical literacy, and the prospects for doing so are formidable because the stark fact is, many Christians don’t know what they believe or why. Our faith is not rooted in scripture. We revere the Bible but don’t read it. Some observers maintain that the Bible has not in any profound way penetrated our culture.”

More than 20 years later the problem is now pandemic. The research is piling in and it is not very good news. This year alone we received the Pew Research report telling us that atheist and agnostics are more literate than Christians. In August a Barna study reports the significant decline in Bible reading among women—the group we always counted on in the past to stay in God’s Word.

Back in 1989 noted author Dallas Willard challenged that church leaders have no plan to deal with this crisis than our politicians have a plan to deal with our national debt. Look where our nation is at 22 years later on the national debt. The church is experiencing the same spiritual and biblical debt crisis.

The Story is a fully integrated assault on biblically literacy. But it is more than that. When one goes through this experience, they will be overwhelmed at the extent God went to get us back. They will fall in love with God like never before. They will see that they are a part of the unfolding of God’s story which is still being told.

Is there a long term plan for carrying this literacy program forward in America?

It is our prayer in partnership with Zondervan for this to become a part of a significant movement to restore God’s Word and God himself to a prominent place in our lives and culture. We have set a goal of 30,000 churches globally over the next five years.

And every movement is accompanied by music. How can one think of the civil rights movement without “We Shall Overcome.” The Story Experience is being accompanied by 18 original songs written by Nichole Nordeman and sung by the greatest artists of our times. We are approaching this initiative with prayer and the passion that it continues to catch fire. With God’s help we have come this far; with God’s help we will cross the finish line.

Rick Warren’s Saddleback is planning a biblical literacy program in January. Coincidence, or are you guys talking together about the total impact you can make?

The problem is so evident that I am surprised that everyone isn’t working on it. This is serious stuff. We have had some great conversations with Saddleback’s leadership on this initiative. We have no formal plans as of yet but I am a strong believer in joining forces for the sake of the call.

When you came to Oak Hills, you said you would be “taking the congregation to another level.”  Explain?

I didn’t come to the Oak Hills Church in a state of crisis. Oak Hills has a wonderful 50-year history of being united in mission and making the necessary changes to maintain an effective witness in the community and world. My goal was not to help them rebuild, which is the case with so many churches, but to help them “go to the next level.”

Particularly, Max envisioned a congregation that would be more outward oriented but didn’t have a particular strategy to pull it off. My job is to bring that biblical strategy in moving the congregation into the community to deposit the presence of Christ.

How do you and Max split out responsibilities, and what is Max’s health these days?

Max and I split the pulpit teaching 50/50. When Max is off, he is writing. When I am off, I am leading the church.

Max’s heart issue led to the opening of the position. However, after I already accepted the job, Max went to the Cleveland Clinic for treatment.

He is now in excellent health. He’s running and exercising and trying his best to beat me in golf.

What does it mean to be “in partnership” with Max?

I’m the Senior Minister and Max is the Minister of Preaching by title. The congregation and staff need this clarity of roles. However, Max and I realize that together, in partnership, we are better and can do more than we could do on our own. We pray together, consult each other on decisions, and approach the congregation as a unified front. I wish all leaders could have this kind of partnership. It gives me life and margin. It is really healthier for the congregation.

Does the congregation/leadership have a strategic plan; what are your goals and vision?

Yes, we have a written strategic plan. We collaborated on it for the entire first year I was at Oak Hills. It was voted on by our 40 elders. In my second year we realigned the staff, elders and financial resources to the strategic plan. In my third year, we launched phase one. The plan calls for seven years to stand up the plan. So far so good.

Our Mission: We are the Body of Christ called to be Jesus in every neighborhood in San Antonio and beyond.

Is the church multi-site; any goals for growth and expansion?

Yes, we are multi-site. We have five campuses with another planned to launch this year. We are also aggressively pursuing a house church network to be linked into strategy and central support resources [see sidebar]. Our goal is not mere numerical growth. We are very committed to place-based community. We really want people worshipping in the community they live verses driving 30 to 50 minutes to one mega-campus.

So we are shifted from “mega church” to “mega vision.”

Did you know Max well?

Max and I knew of each other, but we didn’t know each other. It is amazing that our hearts have so quickly bonded together. I attribute that to Max’s incredibly humble spirit and walk with God.

What is it like to work alongside such a well respected pastor — a little intimidating?

Max not only has a great reputation in San Antonio that he has garnered over 20 years, but Reader’s Digest voted him “America’s Pastor.” That is a little intimidating, isn’t it? I really don’t see it that way. I see how much more influence we can have because of Max’s presence.

I was a senior pastor for 16 years before I left and went to Willow Creek as a teaching pastor. I really didn’t have a strong desire to be the senior guy again. However, it turns out that my vision and communication gifts best suit me to be in this role, so I do it out of good stewardship vs. a desire for the position. I so celebrate Max’s accomplishments and gifts and he does the same for me. It is truly a gift from God.

Back to The Story again, how have your measured “increased spiritual depth” in the church from it? Are you using sophisticated surveys of the church before and after?

For The Story experience, Zondervan did focus groups before and after looking for a variety of measures beyond attendance. This is where we received our most objective feedback.

This fall we are launching a new online instrument called the Christian Life Profile Assessment tool that I worked on with George Gallup Jr. It will not only give us an intense snapshot of where our congregation is at spiritually but will lead them to a customized spiritual growth plan for their own lives. I believe this, in addition to The Story, is another important tool for the church to put in place to turn the tides of our current spiritual condition.

You’re said you sense “the buzz of excitement in the congregation and the community” over The Story experience?

I compare reading the Bible like looking at art. When you go to the Louvre in Paris you look at exquisite works of art by Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Monet, da Vinci and others. While each painting is telling its own story, they are not connected together. When you go into the Sistine Chapel in Rome, however, you are viewing the paintings of more than 300 characters all woven together on the ceiling to tell one story. God wants us to read the Bible like we view the art in the Sistine Chapel, not the Louvre. Most folks have never seen “the mural” of God’s story.

So, you have to first see the one story. Then, you must realize that the story isn’t finished yet. The grand finale described in Revelation 21-22 is yet to come. So, God’s story is still unfolding and he is still using his people to tell the story just like he did in the days of Noah, Moses, David and Paul. When you discover you are a character and have the choice to align your life to the one story God is telling, it is quite overwhelming and fills our life with purpose.

How do you look today at the church at large? Where are we headed?

I believe there is something brewing in the U.S. regarding the church. All the negative news about declining church attendance and biblical literacy is the kind of crisis that is needed for a seismic shift. My hunch is that the church is going to look more like Acts 2:42-47 in the days to come — back to some of the simple, organic, viral-like roots we once experienced. Technology is forcing that upon us in a mighty way. I am leading that way and hope to see it in full bloom in my lifetime. I see it as all Good News for the church.

How do you want to be remembered when your active ministry comes to an end?

“Randy really believed in Jesus and the mission of the church. He taught about it, he wrote about it, but most of all he lived it in his own home and in his neighborhood.” www.OakHillsChurchsa.org

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Frazee’s three years at Willow Creek

How do you describe a church like Willow to those who have not been there or seen it?

Willow has had more effect on pastors in church leadership in my era than any other church I know. The passion of the church, particularly in the early days, was very unique and contagious.

What are you most satisfied about in your time there?

Without question, it was what happened in the little neighborhood of Barrington I lived in with my family for three years. People came to Christ, Christians banded together to help the widows, the single moms and each other. They are still gathering today and tears come to my eyes when I think of them.

What do you say to people who might ask, “What is it like to work with Bill Hybels?”

Crazy thing, Bill was out two of the three years I worked there. One year he was focused on international work and the second year he was recovering from an illness. I describe Bill to others as a “Martin Luther” or a “William Wilberforce.” These men thought big and were not very conventional.  –RF

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Bringing church home

Multi-site, video venues have helped us see that people are willing to worship and gather in a different location without a live teacher. Part of this willingness is a driving value to have a location closer to where they live which opens the opportunity for deeper connections with folks. Good preaching can draw a person to a church, but good relationships are what sustains their involvement and helps them to grow.

If we have cracked the code on multi-site, video venues in purchased or rented facilities, why would we not open up the home or apartment clubhouse for the same experience? We are not talking about a small group, but a church—an official site of the Oak Hills Church.

Technology enables us to pull this off like never before. Through the use of something as economical as a Roku box, the Internet, Facebook and Twitter, we can deliver not only sermons but interactive training and resources for a neighborhood house church of 20 to 30 people to fulfill the entire mission and strategy of the Oak Hills Church.

We are excited about this for four reasons:

• This is how the church was started, in homes around a meal. It is in our heritage and DNA.
• It is extremely economical and therefore reproducible.
• With the noticeable decline in overall church attendance in America and research showing that our kids are now leaving the church when they graduate with no intent on returning, the return to this old paradigm just might find the traction it has yet to find in America.
• There are no geographic boundaries. Anyone who wants to start an Oak Hills house church, because they embrace the mission and values, can do so regardless of where they live, from San Antonio to India.   –RF

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“To understand the Bible, you need bifocal lenses, because two perspectives are involved. The Lower Story, our story, is actually many stories of men and women interacting with God in the daily course of life. The Upper Story is God’s story, the tale of his great, overarching purpose that fits all the individual stories together like panels in one unified mural.”

— Randy Frazee, The Heart of the Story: God’s Masterful Design to Restore His People.

CE Interview: DeForest B. Soaries Jr., Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens, Somerset, NJ.

When “Buster” Soaries awakes at 3:00 in the morning, unable to sleep, he says he is usually “trying to figure out new ways to convince people to accept God’s plan for their lives. All of my work requires that people want something better for their lives.” This senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, NJ, says “My burden is that so many people have settled for less quality in life than they could have. In that sense I am totally focused on how to impact the culture.”

That’s now his quest for his 3,000 worshippers, and was earlier when he was New Jersey Secretary of State. In that latter position he was the first African American male to serve as a constitutional officer of the State of New Jersey, appointed to an unexpired term by Republican Gov.

Christine Todd Whitman and unanimously confirmed by the NJ State Senate.

But political affiliation hasn’t mattered much to Soaries, 60; rather, it’s the issues he can focus his considerable abilities in helping the quality of life for people. Working both sides of the aisle has been his style, and the reason for his success. “I have been a Democrat and a Republican. But my involvement in politics and government has been focused less on partisan politics and more on very specific issues including poverty, education, youth, foster care, urban and community development and minority concerns.

“Party affiliation is never more important than one’s position on issues. I have worked with members of both parties towards solutions to problems and have earned the respect of both parties for the same reason.”

Share a bit about the location of the church.

New Jersey is one of the wealthiest states in the country, and our church is located in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the state. When I arrived at First Baptist, the neighborhood had the highest crime rate, the highest school dropout rate, the worst housing and the most poverty in our region of the state. Despite our neighborhood’s proximity to Johnson & Johnson’s corporate headquarters, and the main campus of Rutgers University, the neighborhood surrounding the church could be described as the “Bermuda Triangle” of economic and social deprivation. There was prosperity all around it but no significant development in this neighborhood for more than 50 years.

Our church made two strategic decisions soon after I arrived. We decided to build a new church facility to house our operations. And we decided to build the new church structure in the same location as the old building and use the project as a catalyst for economic and social revitalization for the entire neighborhood.

We conducted community meetings and neighborhood surveys, and we formed a planning partnership with the municipal and community leaders in the neighborhood. That process produced a plan to address the needs of the entire neighborhood. Our role has been to coordinate the revitalization process and to actually develop certain projects for which we could find no sponsor or developer.

And today, what does the area look like now?

Eighteen years later the results have been remarkable. We have almost 1,000 new units of new affordable housing; a state of the art primary care health facility, a branch of the community college, a supermarket, a $180 million dollar high school; two new bank branches; two new parks; and a new worship facility for the church.

Our nonprofit entities actually sponsored some job training and youth programs, built some of the housing, revitalized three commercial properties and formed a community development credit union. But the primary role that we have played has been to lead the effort and advocate for the neighborhood. This entire vision has been pursuant to Acts 1:8 where Jesus told his disciples that the Holy Spirit would give them power to be his witnesses starting in Jerusalem. We believe that our Jerusalem is the three square miles that surround our church. We call it the Renaissance Neighborhood.

You’ve spoken about your affection for the black church. Can you share what is different about the black church in helping our predominantly white pastor readers understand that importance?

There are two important distinctives that belong to African American churches. First, they generally expect their pastors to provide leadership that is not limited to the spiritual realm. Historically, African Americans have relied upon the clergy to be active and instructive in areas that include politics, economics, education, social justice and cultural affairs. In fact African American clergy are likely to be subjected to criticism for not being active enough in community affairs that impact their memberships and communities. The history of slavery and segregation produced contexts for African American social development that they found required advocacy and agitation from within its ranks. The clergy have been the most visible, credible, literate, articulate, charismatic and independent personalities in the community. Chief among the roles of the clergy were leadership and “spokesmanship” on issues related to justice and fairness. The black religious tradition required that black preachers function as both Priest and Prophet.

The second unique aspect of African American churches is the historic synthesis and compatibility of the social and spiritual nature of the Gospel. The schisms that emerged in mainstream Christianity as a result of Enlightenment scholasticism and criticism never took root in black churches.

And Post-Enlightenment theological tensions did not really affect black churches much.

The nature of scripture, the Gospel and the role of the church have always been a kind of hybrid for blacks. On the one hand blacks have always taken the Bible very seriously — literally if you will — as it related to its authority and its authenticity for setting moral standards for Christian living. On the other hand blacks have also creatively appropriated Biblical stories and characters to shape our responses to injustices heaped upon us by others who identified themselves as Christians. Black people not only identified with the salvific role of Jesus but also the liberating images of Moses.

The profound genius and majestic miracle of the black church is that it has been successful in retaining a vibrant Christian witness among African Americans despite the unholy alliance that existed between institutional white racism and institutional Christianity. Although Christianity was the religion of our oppressors, we were able to see beyond the oppressive actions of the people and identify the authentic God that they worshipped.

Almost every major branch of Christianity was formed as a result of a theological or Biblical issue. But black Christianity in North America has its unique beginnings in a quest for social justice.

You’ve been outspoken on the prosperity gospel, and critical of Pastor Eddie Long, writing in The Wall Street Journal that Long’s “brand of theology has contributed to a troubling trend among black churches in America.” In what way?

There have always been preachers and churches that have deviated from the core messages of Jesus about salvation, love, justice and sacrifice and replaced them with a focus on material gain and personal success. What is different today is that the skillful use of media has made what had been considered aberrant doctrine, movements and practices become perceived as mainstream and legitimate religious practice. When turning God into a Cosmic Santa Claus becomes normative and self-denial, cross bearing followership becomes viewed as faithlessness, the church is in deep trouble. The so-called Christian prosperity movement is the greatest threat to Biblical Christianity in America.

One of the dangerous aspects of the so-called prosperity gospel is that it promotes the notion that God wants people to have material things that they cannot afford but that God will miraculously provide for them. The proponents of this so-called gospel place such an emphasis on material possessions that one’s faith is often tied to the degree to which one gains ownership of more possessions. There is certainly no Biblical prohibition to gaining financial wealth. But the purpose of wealth and any other blessing bestowed by God is to be a blessing to others and not to put on display as evidence as having been blessed due to our faith. The current economic recession is causing many people to re-think this understanding of Jesus and scripture. The church needs more servant leaders and fewer celebrity leaders.

What do African Americans see in prosperity gospel and how is it attractive to them?

The history of injustice has left a legacy that finds African Americans represented in disproportionately high numbers in almost every significant social statistic in this country. Proportionally, blacks are the most unemployed, the most incarcerated, the most impoverished, and therefore we are the most vulnerable to schemes  — religious, political, economic — that appear to offer relief. Blacks in Texas, for example, spend $1.1 billion on lottery tickets every year hoping for economic deliverance. The prosperity message is like a religious lottery where people are throwing money at preachers hoping to win the heavenly lottery. It is shameful.

But you teach another kind of “prosperity plan” to your members?

I teach Biblical truth and common sense. To begin we teach that genuine prosperity is foremost spiritual — what Jesus refers to in Luke 16 when he clearly differentiates between worldly wealth and “true riches.” Jesus said that God wants to assess how we handle money to see if we qualify for true riches.

We also teach Biblical principles of handling money and building wealth. We call our ministry dfree. This ministry teaches and helps our members live without debt, delinquencies and deficits, and leads them into deposits, dividends and deeds. Our goal is to create a community of wise consumers, skillful money managers and willing workers.

If we spend more than we have, live above our means, fail to place ourselves on budgets, ignore the need for insurance, and generally live sloppy financial lives, we are ignoring the teaching of Jesus and undermining our financial futures. There are no gimmicks or tricks involved in dfree.

There are four phases of our strategy: Get Started, Get Control, Get Ahead and Give Back. This is a church-wide effort and a priority of my ministry.

What “awakening” did you have for getting a grip on one’s financial future?

A few years ago I noticed that many of our members were driving expensive, late model cars. Closer analysis revealed that these cars had been financed with loans that had extremely high interest rates. That led us to a review of home mortgages and other financial relationships that our members had. It became clear that the church had a tremendous challenge to address in the area of consumer debt and financial management. The leaders of our church joined me in making a commitment to helping our members get out of debt and begin saving, managing and investing our money wisely. And we included the church itself in that commitment. Not only do we want debt free members — but we also want to have a debt free church after having borrowed $19 million to build a new church facility.

You have Dfree Sunday? What happens then?

Debt free living requires more than Biblical and financial information. We live in a consumer culture that promotes spending as a social virtue and shopping as emotional therapy. Therefore, we have learned that reckless and irresponsible spending is more an emotional, psychological and spiritual problem than it is an informational problem. Therefore, we believe that it takes the support of others to break the cycle and culture of debtwith which we are plagued.
So in addition to the classes and workshops that we sponsor, we have a church-wide campaign that includes celebrating with our members when they completely pay off any debt. Dfree Sunday is when that happens. We pause during each of our worship services and give our members an opportunity to testify about any bill or bills that have retired during the previous month. And the entire congregation then gives a rousing applause for that accomplishment. We are trying to popularize debt free living and offer the worshipping community as cheerleaders in the process.

Beside the debt free ministry, what other programs are you working hard on?

I believe the other high impact ministry in our church is our foster care and adoption ministry, called Harvest of Hope. Through this ministry we have trained almost 400 families to become licensed foster homes and they have taken in 800 foster children; 255 of these children have been adopted and now have loving Christian homes that provide for them for the rest of their lives.

Foster care has become a feeder system for juvenile incarceration in this country. If churches would engage in similar work, we could literally end the foster care system as we know it and Christians could care for the 500,000 children in foster care. Not only would this steer thousands of at-risk youth away from the lure of criminal behavior, but it would ultimately same millions of public dollars that are currently funding failed strategies maintaining this child welfare system.

How would you like to be remembered when you leave the active ministry?

I would like to be remembered as a pastor who loved his family, cared about people and used his gifts to serve others and solve problems.
www.FBCSomerset.com

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Engaged with state government

Pastor Soares is “Shermanesque” about his future in politics: “My political days are completely behind me. I will neither seek elective office nor accept an appointive office. Nor will I endorse any candidate for public office.” His church is involved, however, in various ways with current Governor Chris Christie and his administration:

• Foster care and adoption
• Community development
• Special needs housing
• Affordable housing
• Hosted an event, “Fugitive Safe Surrender,” led by the Attorney General where 3,901 fugitives peacefully surrendered to law enforcement officials at his church (with Mrs. Christie attending);
• Keynote speaker for the Governor’s Faith-Based conference in September.

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Dfree: Breaking Free from Financial Slavery is a blueprint not only for managing one’s way out of debt but also for changing one’s life. Author Rev. Dr. DeForest “Buster” Soaries Jr. says “My hope is that this book can become your personal emancipation proclamation.” (Zondervan, 2011)

David Horner Senior Pastor, Providence Baptist Church, Raleigh, NC

David Horner’s heart for missions goes back to his teen years when he was invited on trips to Jamaica and Haiti, and both were “eye opening experiences that showed me that the need for the Gospel extended far beyond the local community.” Today, the senior pastor of Providence Baptist Church, Raleigh, NC, a church of 2,200 adults and 500 children, has a concern that the church’s own success has become the scourge of missions outreach overseas.

He’s written an informed book, When Missions Shapes the Mission, and in the opening sentence, he asks: “Why are more churches not engaged in a more practical and substantial way in taking the Gospel to the nations?” He has a few answers:

“A wide variety of factors come into play — church growth at home drains energy and focus from efforts to reach nations, ethnocentric perspectives breed isolationism, the ‘American dream’ fosters an entitlement mentality in churches and individuals (that we must be happy and comfortable even if it means neglecting God’s will).

“Pastors have few missions role models and even less incentive to give up local resources for gains that are largely invisible on the home front,” he tells Church Executive.

Horner grew up in a mill church under the preaching of G.W. Swinney, or “Preacher Swinney” as he was known to everyone, on Mill Hill in Burlington, NC. He notes Swinney was a fiery evangelist who had been pastor since 1927 and retired in 1969, Horner’s junior year in high school. “I came to Christ during a fall revival meeting when I was nine years old. The church was very strong on evangelism, but as a young boy I did not hear much about what it meant to grow up in Christ until my teen years in youth group.”

When did you really get interested in missions work, over and above so many other aspects of church life? How did it evolve in your life and ministry?

Soon after learning what it means to grow in Christ through student Bible studies, a group out of the local YMCA led by J. L. Williams was challenged to see the Gospel on a broader scale than suburban Burlington. In the summer of 1969, I went with them on my first missions trip. We spent a little over a week in Jamaica and the next year followed up with a trip that also included Haiti. But missions work has never been elevated above other aspects of the work of the church. It simply was a part of the big picture of how the Gospel shapes the priorities of a church. As a balanced focus for ministry in the local church must include an emphasis on worship and discipleship, evangelism and caring ministries, it cannot neglect missions as a major part of its calling. Missions is never isolated from the mainstream of the life of the church.

How is the conduct of missions different today from, say a decade ago — for better or worse?

A weak economy has reduced the funds available for missions at a time when we should be seeing a dramatic increase in the levels of our investment in taking the Gospel to the nations. In my own denomination, a reduction in workers has left many fields with insufficient resources to make progress in reaching unreached people groups.

At the same time that problem is growing, opportunities are opening up as travel becomes easier, a new generation is catching a vision for God’s heart for the nations and mission trips are generating a higher level of commitment to go and stay. In the past decade, we have seen a greater willingness to get up and go among the members of our congregation than ever before — both short-term and career.

If individuals, churches and denominations will demonstrate a balanced priority with missions giving, a new wave of workers will gladly go as the funds will then be available.

You founded your congregation in 1978 that is said to be a “mission-based church.” How is that expressed in real terms in the life of your congregation?

Among the many points of emphasis in a growing church, missions is not pushed to the margins so that other ministry efforts can take pre-eminence. In worship, we often speak of missions and present teams and families who are heading off to “parts unknown” so that the entire congregation sees them, prays for them and knows that people are constantly going.

Budgets reflect our desire to allocate funds to support missions financially. Our goal is to keep missions giving in the budget as a way to demonstrate that it is a priority and not an after thought. Giving to missions beyond the budget often approaches the same levels as the amount designated within the budget.

An annual missions conference has become one of the ministry highlights of the year. The Friday night banquet usually has a waiting list of folks who want to come but space limits make it impossible to accommodate all who want to be there. Regular prayer emphases from the pulpit and in monthly prayer lists also keep missions in front of our folks. The book lays out the top ten best practices embraced by 120 churches who responded to a survey asking just that question.

You say that many U.S. churches have abandoned global missions. Why do you think that is so, just in the past generation?

For some it is theological: They might agree on paper that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone but either they think that the nations will be saved through some other means, or worse, they are not that concerned about the condition of their hearts before God.

For others, it is a matter of pragmatics. It is tough enough to give the necessary attention to local ministries and congregational peace and growth. But when the appeal comes to extend the effort even further, many are just too swamped to give that mandate the proper consideration.

You speak about the “systemic neglect” of churches toward missions. What do you mean by that?

No church worth its salt intends to abandon or neglect missions but in the crush of other pressing needs, voices on the other side of the world have a hard time being heard.  Programs, policies, strategies and other products of church systems can consume the available time and resources on the home front before addressing missions. Therefore, people will gladly give missions the leftovers but it often does not occur to them to make it an essential part of the ministry effort.

For many, missions support is “sending money” rather than “sending people.” Missions is often seen as the work of “professional ministry”?

Ministry of all sorts have degenerated into the work of paid professionals. The idea of pastors equipping the saints for ministry frequently gives way to a faulty impression that the so called “clergy” are supposed to do the ministry. The same philosophy often follows into missions thinking. Better to send money and pay someone to do it than have to wrestle with a call from God to go yourself.

You call your own denomination, the Southern Baptists, to account on its missions work.  What do you see that could be done better?

Southern Baptists offer a great case study on this topic. For the past decade, among Protestant denominations, they have clearly led the way in support for and sending of missionaries. So if one of the leading denominations has such a hard time keeping its focus where it says they want to be, that should be a call to others to right the ship and get back on board with biblical priorities in missions.

As far as what could be done better, the most obvious areas would be the redistribution of budgeted funds so that a great portion of monies collected actually make it to send the gospel to the nations. In most cases, only about 17 to 18 percent of every dollar contributed at the denominational level makes it to international missions. The case gets worse the further down the chain you go.

Churches send less and less to missions causes and individuals are notoriously neglectful regarding the biblical responsibility/privilege for sound stewardship. Second only to funding would be to retool our thinking about who should go, can go, will go. Too few are willing to pull up stakes and give themselves to go. It is far easier to say you will give and pray than to get up and go!

What’s the Great Commission Resurgence of the SBC and what can we expect of it that will be better than done in the past for evangelizing?

Seeing the neglect of missions and responding to the outcries of many in the denomination for a better representation of gifts going to missions, a commission was given to a group of pastors and leaders from around the country to study the situation and make some recommendations about how to fix it. That was done and now it is in the hands of state denominational organizations to determine how much and how quickly the recommendations should be implemented.

“The place held by missions in the church today is marked by controversy and confusion and competition.” What do you mean in each of those three categories?

Controversy persists among churches confused by all the voices competing for pre-eminence for their time, attention and resources. One church advocates a greater emphasis on being missional in the surrounding community while another next door sees that as an abandonment of the commission to the nations.

Confused members hear convincing reasons for the approach their church is taking but cannot help but think that they might be missing something in their approach. With a limited amount of funds and willing people available, the competition for both can become a source of contention for those making decisions about budgets and ministry plans.

We have tried to promote a balanced biblical approach that operates on a breadth of biblical principles, taking into consideration the wide range of responsibilities given to the church. Then instead of battling for top billing, each area of ministry complements the others and contributes to a greater clarity in understanding a consistent vision for what it means to serve Christ as his body.

What is meant by a church having a “sending mentality?”

For a church to have a sending mentality requires that it learn how to give away what it does not own—that is everything! We are merely stewards of what has been entrusted to us and that includes the people in our churches. If we are constantly looking for ways to enhance the work of the kingdom of Christ, we will be less likely to think about how to keep people and be more likely to figure out how to send them.

“Pastors must be at the front of the charge,” you write. Any thoughts on how to marshall the troops?

There is nothing mystical or particularly brilliant about it. Just teach and preach the Scriptures faithfully and the Lord will stir the people to be diligent to apply what they hear and learn. In the course of working through the Bible in expositional teaching, you cannot help but see the heart of God for the nations and then the people will begin to reflect the heart of God in their thinking.

Then, lead by example. Go yourself and encourage others on your leadership teams to go and take others with them. Nothing beyond the Scriptures themselves will excite missions passion like being there yourself and seeing the need, sensing the joy and communicating the wonder of Christ first-hand.

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Sampling of superior missions programs

Westover Church in Greensboro, NC, has long been a regional leader in missions.

The Summit in Durham and Calvary Baptist in Winston-Salem are two other notable North Carolina churches.

Lakeview Baptist Church in Auburn, AL, Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, WI, The Chapel in Akron, OH, Briarwood Presbyterian and The Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham, AL are all strong missions churches. — DH

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“Let’s dream a godly dream. What if you committed to step up and lead your church in the pursuit of becoming a mission-focused church?” asks David Horner in When Missions Shapes the Mission: How You and Your Church Can Reach the World (B&H Publishing Group, 2011)

By Ronald E. Keener

When the family of Denise Craig sat down at the supper table, it wasn’t unusual for the conversation to turn to financial topics. Her father is a CPA, her mother is a governmental accountant, and her younger sister has a degree in finance. “I was the creative one who said I didn’t want to be an accountant,” she laughs. Today she is the chief financial officer of Abba’s House, Hixson, TN, which has more than 5,000 members and this year is observing its 60th year.

What was your church background, and did you have any rocky times along the way?

I grew up in church and always knew God was with me, helping guide my path. I fully committed my life to Christ when I was 14 years old, and although I have made many decisions since then — it was by far the most important. Probably the toughest circumstance I have had to walk through thus far was my parent’s divorce, also when I was 14. I clung to Philippians 4:13 and Christ helped see me through. I never went through a rebellious phase as a teenager, and I am very grateful for that.

What sort of professional questions might you have gone to your Dad about your job at the church?

At the beginning there were lots of things! I have had many questions for him about whether something would be taxable or non-taxable income to an individual, always giving him the specific oddities of each particular situation. I’ve called my mom and asked her questions about the 941 tax return and other personnel-related questions. They have always been and will always be a great resource for me. I am very blessed.

You’ve found the National Association of Church Business Administration important to your career?

A requirement of accepting this position was to become a member of NACBA and to be credentialed through their certification program. I spent the next two summers at Southwestern Seminary for my coursework, completed my project and became a Certified Church Administrator in July 2006. NACBA has also provided me with a network of church administrators who I can now call friends. I am currently the president of our local NACBA chapter and I serve on the NACBA Professional Training and Standards committee.

You’ve been involved in the music of the church and in the Christmas production — just at the time when the year-end audit is due. How have you managed that?

Well, I would be fibbing if I said it wasn’t a challenge! I have had the privilege of serving as the musical conductor for our Broadway-style church Christmas production for the last two years. One of the areas I serve our church is as a volunteer in the worship department. My husband and I both have music degrees, so it is an area of passion for us and a way we know we can use our gifts for God’s glory.

It is also an opportunity for me to use the other side of my brain, literally! My husband and our two boys were in the production as well, so there were many days I would prepare a meal in a Crock Pot, bring it in to the office in the morning, plug it in, and have it ready that evening prior to rehearsal. We would eat and work on homework in my office, then head to rehearsal. Honestly, it took a lot of organizational and time management.

All the while, I would spend my days closing the books for the year and preparing for auditors. When I look back now, I do wonder, how did I do all that? Then, I am reminded of Philippians 4:13, again.

What is there about managing and leading that has served you well in knowledge and execution?

I am blessed to be gifted with God-given administrative gifts. I displayed them early in my life, as a child. I am also a firm believer in being a life-long learner. Life is always changing and we have to keep up with what is current. We also have to continually seek God and look within ourselves to see if we are being everything He created us to be. A church is not an organization – it is an organism, a living thing. I am mindful that although I look at a lot of numbers, those numbers represent real people and they are what really matter.

Have you had to deal with a downsizing in this tough economic time? What has the church done to stay on an even keel financially?

We had actually done some staff restructuring in 2006, the first full year in our new facility, so we were in a little better position to handle the current economic situation; however, even with that we have had to forego staff raises, cut staff retirement funding in half and trim ministry budgets. Our budget is a guide, and the money can only be spent if it comes in through the generosity of our members.

Churches that stress generosity are often churches that do better in this economy. Does your church do anything in particular about stewardship and giving?

Absolutely! It is our desire to create a culture of generosity through biblical teaching and hands-on corporate opportunities. Our pastor is an excellent expository preacher and he isn’t timid about speaking on the topic of giving. It is clear just by the number of times money or money management is mentioned in the Bible that it must be important to God. If it’s important to God, it should definitely be important to us!

We also offer many opportunities for our members to not only give financially to special outreach projects, but to have hands-on participation as well. For more than 10 years, we have packed and delivered 1,000 backpacks for inner city school kids. We also minister to homeless women and their children through an amazing day of ministry called Project Esther, where we bus these women and children onto our campus for the day. The women spend the morning in mini-courses, such as managing their money or how to prepare for an interview. They also hear testimonies of other women who have hit rock bottom and have lived to tell how God saw them through.

After a comfort-food lunch and hearing the Gospel message, they spent the afternoon in pampering sessions getting their hair done, nails done, make-up done and visiting our “boutique” where they take home an entire bag of clothes and a basket full of goodies for their home they will have one day. We also have a Sunday each year called “Mission Reach-Out.” That morning, everyone comes casual and after an abbreviated service, we split up and do about 30 service projects all over town. I like to think of it as “generosity in action”!

What is your ratio of staff to budget; have you had to correct that in recent years?

Our personnel salaries and benefits represent 47 percent of our general operating budget. We try to stay in the 45 to 55 percent range. Hiring additional staff requires praying, planning and faith. When considering to hire staff, first seek the Lord to make sure it is the right fit and timing. Secondly, plan and make sure the church’s income can handle the additional expenses of salary and benefits, plus the costs of another working employee, such as office expenses, staff development and other ministry-related expenses. Finally, once you have prayed and planned you step out in faith to do what you believe is best for your church.

What is your budgeting process; how do you relate it to vision and planning?

Our budgeting process is thorough and does relate back to vision and planning. It starts each August with a staff planning day where we review and plan the calendar for the upcoming calendar year, then each senior staff member also prepares a M.A.P. (Ministry Action Plan) from a guide they are given.

The M.A.P. describes their goals for the year, and where they see the ministry headed in the upcoming year. When they receive their budget packets, the first question on each page, simply to serve as a reminder, is “How does this budget relate to your M.A.P.?” We want to make sure we are spending God’s money on things that have a true ministry purpose. Once the staff members have completed their portion, it comes back to me for compilation and review. Usually after some additional trimming, it is reviewed by the senior pastor and the Pastor’s Council (which serves as our Personnel and Finance Committee). Once they have approved it, it is published for congregational review and vote.

Have you ever had to deal with an embezzlement by staff member or volunteer? Thankfully, we have not experienced embezzlement. One of the advantages of being audited annually by an independent CPA firm is their review of our internal controls through their very thorough walk-through of all of our financial procedures. We run background checks on all employees, as well as volunteers who work with students or money. We also have a sophisticated security system, with cameras all over our campus. Even though we have these precautions in place, this is an area in which I feel we should always be cautious and never let down our guard.

You are also a pastor of the church. I take it this is a meaningful title?

Wow, it is truly an honor. Last year, when our church ordained four women on our staff for the first-time ever, it was truly a monumental moment not only for our church, but for each of us. I love people and I love being able to minister to them. A pastor is a shepherd, someone who leads others closer to Christ. I am both honored and humbled to do that. It is something I don’t take lightly.

For additional information on the communications function of Abba House and Ron Phillips Ministries, go to www.ChurchExecutive.com for an article by Angie McGregor, executive director of Communications, for the congregation.

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Challenges in church finance today

First, I think the biggest challenge beyond the current economic situation in general is that many younger Americans are motivated to give by feeling, rather than by a personal conviction. This puts the church at a bit of a disadvantage when its main source of income is the donations of its members. We address this through regular pulpit teaching on biblical principles of giving. We also have classes and financial study materials available for our members.

Second, another thing that is challenging in smaller congregations that don’t have a full-time church administrator is having the knowledge they need to make appropriate and wise decisions. We host a monthly church administrator luncheon in cooperation with the local NACBA chapter to deal with exactly these types of issues. We bring in a knowledgeable speaker to address certain issues, such as personnel law, energy savings, tax issue for ministers, etc. It is very helpful for those churches that need reliable sources for accurate information.

Third, I think another challenge is finding creative ways to report financial information to the congregation. Reports need to be clear enough for everyone to understand, yet give plenty of information for the church to see how their tithes and offerings are being used to further the work of the Kingdom and the vision of the church. A couple of years ago, I simplified the report we use for our quarterly church business meeting, and at times we have done our annual budget presentation by video to change things a bit. We also use video quite frequently to report how mission funds have been used. As they say, a picture paints a thousand words. — DC

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Why ECFA membership is important to churches

Membership in the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability is our way to let others know publicly that we choose to adhere to high standards of accountability and conduct our church’s business in a responsible, purposeful manner. The initial application fee is $500 and the annual renewal is based on the entity’s cash contribution income.

It did take a while to get all of the information together for the initial application, and it does require effort to maintain it, but we feel it is worth it. We have an annual GAAP audit done every year anyway, so I just forward those financial statements to ECFA, and we also commit to adhere to their seven standards of responsible stewardship.

We have seen many benefits of being ECFA members beyond the peace of mind it may give our donors. ECFA provides wonderful resources and free webinars for ECFA members. The experts they bring to the table are some of the most well-respected in their fields and certainly provide a value-added benefit to membership. — DC

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Accounting for RPM ministries

RPM (Ron Phillips Ministries) is one fund within the fund accounting of the church. It is not a separate organization, and it is not partly or wholly owned by Ron Phillips. It is simply the media arm of Abba’s House. When people give to RPM, they are giving to a designated fund of Abba’s House.

RPM does have a separate budget from the general operating budget of the church and it has its own business manager who directly reports to Angie McGregor, executive director of Communications, to aid her in making wise programming choices. However, all of her accounting information flows back to me as part of the overall financial picture of Abba’s House.

Dr. Phillips does not receive any revenue generated through RPM. He receives a salary through the church operating budget, just like every other staff member. One of the greatest things about watching “Ron Phillips from Abba’s House” is that we don’t set out to do a television show each week. We set out to capture the heart of the service, ministry and dynamic preaching as it is carried out in a real, living, vibrant church. I think that is what relates to so many who watch. Our services are also streamed live on our website.

We have an event for RPM in August each year called “The Big Event.” It involves a golf tournament, silent and live auctions, banquet, preaching, worship and more! Most of the attendees are folks who watch “Ron Phillips from Abba’s House” in their own cities and come to see what our church is really like in person. They also want to know if Ron Phillips is really as down-to-earth and transparent as he appears on the show. Once they get here, they know he is!

We engage in many types of missions, and RPM is one of them. The TV program is aired on every continent in the world and the radio program, “Centerpoint,” can be heard on many stations around the country, as well as on the Internet. In a media-driven society, this is a relevant way to reach the lost. It is not impersonal – not when you have volunteers who are members of your own church answering the phones when viewers call in. RPM is about real people doing real ministry, in a way that makes a real difference.    — DC

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Worldwide ministry requires communications effort to fit the size

Angie McGregor is executive director of Communications for Abba’s House, a 5,000–member congregation in Hixson, TN. The church has not only a local and regional ministry, through its weekend services, but also a national and international missions and media ministry with Senior Pastor Dr. Ron Phillips. McGregor manages it all—a budget of more than a million dollars and one that accounts for 15 percent of the church’s annual income.

To read the complete companion article click here.