”Whether it is a change in worship style or a change in music, there are significant challenges facing worship leaders today,” says Eileen Guenther in speaking about the collaboration between clergy and musicians. One of those challenges she speaks of in a new book Rivals or a Team? (Morningstar Music Publishers) is how well the pastor and the worship leader get along.

Guenther, associate professor of church music at Wesley Theological Seminary, Washington, D.C., responded to questions from Church Executive:

What is it about the relationship of pastor and musician that engenders conflict?

It often comes down to two issues: a matter of control and a lack of clarity about “who’s responsible for what.”  In this regard there are two issues that surface most frequently. The first is choice of hymns, for example. If both parties are used to choosing them in previous employment situations and they don’t talk about the way they want to handle it, there can be conflict at the very start.

Another example is the need for clarity in terms of how far ahead the clergy share the theme for a service (or which Scripture readings will be the main focus of the sermon). Musicians need a certain amount of time to choose (and perhaps order) as well as to rehearse music that will be relevant for a particular service – and finding out what the subject sermon is on Saturday afternoon before Sunday isn’t sufficient.

How can the two start out on the right track when either of them is new to the church?

The key issues in forming a relationship are building trust and respect. This would start in an obvious way — getting to know each other, learning what the other person values in terms of worship and music and discovering how each of them sees their relationship. This takes a commitment of time for regular meetings and personal investment in the relationship, but will pay huge dividends. Initiating these discussions early on will pave the way for a healthy, mutually supportive relationship.

Are there key questions a pastor should ask the musician about music style and worship approach?

Absolutely! Productive questions are basic: In your view, what is the goal of worship?  What is the role of music within the service? What is the role of the choir in encouraging congregational singing? How can we work together to enable the most powerful worship in this place? Do you have “hot buttons” that I could avoid?

What should be the end goal of worship music?

For me the goal of worship is “ushering the people of God into the presence of God and sending them forth to do God’s work in the world.” Music makes a difference in the world and it makes a difference in worship. It is “portable theology,” and well-chosen music (especially the final hymn) can send people out of the sanctuary singing the message of the Scripture and the sermon.

Church music isn’t all about rock music and loud drumming today. Is the organ still the predominant instrument among America’s larger churches?

“Add, don’t subtract” is my motto. The organ is very much alive and gives vibrant musical leadership in many churches. It’s not unusual, however, to use piano or drums when the music calls for it. The broader the range of music, the broader the range of instruments! Add instruments to the mix, don’t take them away!

How do you look at music within the church?

The opportunity to affect the spiritual lives of congregations is one to be treasured. Music speaks to our hearts and our souls and, having heard it or sung it, changes us. For music and for its power in worship, I can only say, “Thanks be to God!”

The use of marketing within the church is still seen as controversial, says one of the authors of Building Strong Congregations (Autumn House Publishing). Bruce Wrenn says, “It depends on whom you ask. Some critics will always be opposed to the use of marketing because they find its function at odds with the spiritual life of the church. Other critics might be won over if their opposition is based on a misunderstanding of what marketing really is, or if they mistakenly believe we are proposing it be used for all components of a church’s mission.”

Wrenn is professor of Christian ministry at Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI, and wrote the book with marketing expert Philip Kotler and church consultant Norman Shawchuck. Dr. Wrenn responded to questions from Church Executive:

Should religious institutions and churches be marketed?

We believe religion, that is, Christianity, shouldn’t and can’t be marketed. But a church and its ministries can and should be marketed. Marketing involves the deep understanding of people’s needs and the development of need satisfying services – exactly what churches are trying to achieve by fostering fellowship and offering ministries as part of their mission. Attracting other believers without a home church to join your congregation is also part of the “can and should” territory of church marketing.

When should a large congregation begin to consider staffing for the marketing function?

Congregations of any size should realize that they are already doing marketing if they are trying to serve the needs of people. So, staffing may merely consist of volunteers or paid staff learning how to do it better. In one sense, staffing the marketing function is merely helping congregants become more committed to understanding and serving people in need.

A case can be made, however, for the strategic planning team to create a marketing plan as part of the planning process and assign responsibility for its implementation to a specific individual.

What is branding when applied to a church?

I recently was talking with a church marketer about how marketing is sometimes defined as removing the barriers to exchange, and that he might be faced with barriers of knowledge, motivation and trust that stand in the way of engaging in exchange with the audience he was trying to reach.

Branding can be an effective means of breaking through such barriers. I see the most successful churches as having a well-established “corporate” brand, plus scores of individually branded ministries, events and programs. My guess is that they are giving a lot of attention to continuous improvement of their branding strategies and tactics.

Is religious programming on TV or radio past its prime? Where might pastors be spending such dollars more wisely for outreach?

It is certainly true that narrowcasting – using media to reach a specifically targeted audience – has replaced broadcasting for many marketers, including church marketers. This question also points out the necessity for churches to develop comprehensive communication plans that include all methods of communicating your message. Churches, with their limited marketing budgets, must be careful to allocate funds among the media in a way that capitalizes on the strength of each medium. In other words, don’t send a radio ad out to do a blog’s job. Radio, TV and newspapers still have their place in the church marketer’s arsenal; it’s just a smaller place than it used to be.

In the United States, there are 1,800 megachurches – those averaging 2,000 or more in weekly worship attendance – according to church lists compiled by Leadership Network. A 2011 study of 336 megachurches conducted by Leadership Network and Hartford Institute for Religion Research shows that “megachurches remain one of the most robust religious organizational expressions within North America … with these churches averaging 8 percent growth per year for the last five years.”

Tony Morgan, pastor of ministries at West Ridge Church near Atlanta and author of several books, including the e-book Big Churches Getting Bigger, says large churches continue to grow and thrive because “they are strategic in their approach to alignment, adaptability, leadership, and reach.”

Morgan explains these four factors in his e-book (available at TonyMorganLive.com/book) and shares with Church Executive some proven strategies to church growth and health.

What’s the biggest fear large churches have to overcome to continue growing? I think the biggest fear to overcome is the fear of losing control. If you feel like you have to control people and systems, that’s the moment you begin to die as an organization.

Ironically, big churches tend to have fewer controls than smaller churches. Generally, they seem to have fewer rules, fewer committees and fewer meetings. That doesn’t mean it’s a free-for-all. It just means they’ve learned that they need to release people to be who God created them to be.

What kind of leaders are effective in growing an already big church? Effective leaders in growing churches have learned to empower people. Real leaders have learned that ministry is bigger than preaching a message or singing a few songs or pulling off a great event. Real leaders empower people, using their God-given gifts, to engage ministry in the real world.

You identified alignment as one factor that makes a church grow bigger and stronger. When does full alignment happens in a church. Alignment happens when a church not only clarifies its vision but also says, “This is the strategy we’re going to use to get that vision accomplished.” Many churches haven’t landed on a strategy. Because they’ve never done that, people are either left guessing what they’re supposed to do to support the vision or, worse yet, people start establishing their own strategies based on previous church experiences. Without unity, there will never be health and growth.

Give an example of where a method is more important to a church than its mission. One of my favorite stories that Mark Beeson, the senior pastor at Granger Community Church, tells is about a church that used to sell peanut brittle to raise money. One year as the annual sale approached, there was an argument over which peanut brittle recipe they should use. The church ended up splitting because they couldn’t agree on a recipe. Needless to say, they lost sight of the church’s mission. Any time our methods get in the way of our mission, we might as well be arguing about peanut brittle recipes.

What could lead to the demise of a big church? What are its vulnerabilities? My biggest concern for big churches is the issue of leadership development. There seems to be a lot of talk about leadership but not much leadership development is actually happening. For me, leadership development and mentoring and discipleship all blend together. We’ve stopped thinking in those terms. Instead, the focus is on transferring knowledge through services and events. That approach will not develop leaders. Because of that, I think the leadership transitions we’ll see in large churches in the coming decade will be very interesting to watch.

In writing There’s Hope for Your Church: First Steps to Restoring Health and Growth (Baker Books, 2012), author Gary L. McIntosh says “most pastors literally hate to confront others about anything.”

“Making difficult decisions means someone in the church won’t like you, which is very hard for many pastors to take. If a pastor is going to be a turnaround leader, he must be willing to pay the price of not being liked by some in the church,” he says.

McIntosh is a veteran consultant and president of Church Growth Network and teaches at Talbot School of Theology. Church Executive asked him about the chapter “Make Hard Decisions”:

One hard decision is to “cut the fat,” you write, to stop the hemorrhaging. Any first steps?

One of the best questions to ask in a turnaround situation is “Would we do this if we were starting a brand-new church?” Particularly for small churches, I recommend going back to the beginning and looking at the church as a new church plant. If you were starting today, what would you do? What would you not do? Then cut the fat, the things you wouldn’t do today.

The inclination of most pastors is to stay out of the finances, but you say, “Control the cash.”

Someone must keep a close eye on the cash; that is, the income, payables, etc. The pastor must know what is going on financially. He or she should definitely keep “close watch” on the finances, and by that I mean every Monday morning a complete review of the entire financial situation.

What should a pastor in these circumstances do before even taking the job to ensure he isn’t fired after the first month?

Before accepting a call or appointment to a turnaround church, it is wise for a pastor to be open and upfront with what must be done to turn the church around. This means not just asking, “Do you want your church to grow?” A question like that is way too general. Instead a pastor should be as specific as possible. For instance, something like, “We will have to close the school by the end of the year.” Then get it in writing that the church will do it, or have them do it before you accept the call or appointment.

I also suggest that the pastor get a signed agreement that he cannot be dismissed for X number of years, or something like that. Each pastor has to work within the denominational or associational guidelines of the church, but do what can be done to secure agreement before accepting the call.

What is a problem person that you say needs to be confronted in order to move the church forward?

There are always people who keep the church from making the tough or necessary decisions. These people must be confronted and removed from control if a church is to turn around. If a pastor knows who such people are before coming to the church, it might be possible to require them to step down before accepting the call or appointment.

I don’t mean to imply a problem person is always a bad person; sometimes they are very nice people, but just blocking the road forward. To allow them to keep control will mean the church never is able to turnaround in a new direction.

Some people will say you aren’t being very “Christian” when you show people the door?

My advice is to communicate a clear direction and tell people if you are with me, I encourage you to stay and help us turn this church around. I never suggest saying that people should leave, but the implication is if you aren’t with me why stay? However, if a person is extremely obstinate, vocal or controlling, they may need to be confronted and asked to leave.

If you want to produce a harvest of leaders who are ripe for the task of Kingdom building, the work will have to start in you. “A spiritual leader must live a life worth being replicated,” writes Dan Reiland in Amplified Leadership, published by Charisma House. He is executive pastor at 12Stone Church, Lawrenceville, GA.

The book, says Reiland, was born out of years leading in local churches and coaching pastors. Hence, it offers proven and practical principles – not theories – to help churches continually develop new leaders. Reiland shares with Church Executive some of these principles.

How do you live “trust” with your team?

Trust means we can count on each other. We assume the best and give the benefit of the doubt. We also know that even among the best teams, trust doesn’t perpetuate itself, it must be cultivated. So if there is ever a question or an issue, we ask rather than pretend everything is okay.

You say your team is a “combination of a posse and a rock band.” What do you mean by it?

We are not a conventional bunch. We have more rebel in us than perhaps is good, and we consider sarcasm a spiritual gift.  But for us, that’s part of the magic. Yes, we are a combination of rock band and posse. We hear and make our own “music” regardless of what is currently popular, and if you try to hurt anyone on the team, you better be looking over your shoulder because there’s a wild bunch coming after you! We really do watch out for and protect each other.

You say of your team that you genuinely like each other. Any stumbles in getting to that point, or are you just lucky?

We might be lucky, but I think we work hard on hiring well. It doesn’t always work out perfectly, but we’ve learned to focus heavily on chemistry. Character and competence are important, but they are in many ways a given. Chemistry is the difference maker! If someone just doesn’t fit, we don’t try to force it no matter how talented they are.

Do you still like each other as much after performance evaluations?

Yes, we do! We don’t do evaluations in the traditional sense. We call ours “coaching conversations,” and they are based on shared goals, communicating expectations, and bringing out the best. We use them to coach the team and develop them as leaders. People want to talk about that stuff!  It’s true that no one likes how much time and effort they take, but they do like the results.

What is it about yourself that seems to work best with others, or are you just a teddy-bear of a guy who everyone loves?

I’m not a teddy-bear. In fact of all the adjectives used to describe me, several of which you can’t put in print, that would not be on the list. Candidly, I’m very driven and I have high standards. The team would say they know I care about them — and I really do.

What do others seem to do wrong in establishing relationships with their team members?

Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions are two big ones. E-mail gets teams in trouble, too. You’ve just got to have face time and keep it real.

What else might you want to say about relationships on staff?

Don’t try to force it. You can’t legislate relationship. You just can’t be buddies with everyone. Be yourself. People like you best that way. Our rule of thumb is: “Close to a few, Connect with all, and Conflict (unresolved) with none.”

Those who carry responsibilities in congregations, whether employed staff or volunteer leaders, need to speak well for themselves and their churches. Lynn Wilford Scarborough has written a helpful book, Talk Like Jesus (Phoenix Books), that many church administrators might gain from. Scarborough suggests that we can learn lessons “from the most effective speaker of all time.”

She is founder of EmPowerCom, a firm in strategic business communications and media training [empowercom.us]. Scarborough responded to questions from Church Executive:

What can we know about how Jesus did talk?

Jesus was an amazing master communicator. The gospels give us a tremendous amount of information about what Jesus said but also how he said it.  When Jesus spoke he used stories, analogies, images and questions in a simple yet direct manner.  He was able to communicate on multiple levels simultaneously (from senses to head to heart to spirit) and transmit spiritual principles.

Think of it, today even the smallest child can remember his stories and the wisest of men still ponder their meaning. Today’s critics would accuse him of telling children’s stories, complain he was too blunt or they would be angered by his ability to deflect their arguments.

What should we make of it that Jesus did not always give a response? Is that a useful tactic in today’s business world?

Jesus taught us that “No Comment” can be a safe place. Jesus did not feel obliged to answer or respond to situations that were no-wins, set ups, emotionally charged or when people had closed minds and hard hearts. Talking before thinking is never a wise move. Jesus’ example gives us permission and the freedom to avert conflict or possible disaster by taking a “pass.”

What should we make of Jesus’ “incredible popularity” in his day?

Jesus used analogies, props and stories that everyone could relate to with their senses and understanding. The stories have humor and drama. Common sense also tells us that he must have been a dynamic and expressive storyteller as well.  People don’t sit in the hot sun and walk for hours or days unless there is a great presentation.

You write about him using “stories and analogies to deflect an attack.” Is there an example that can be applied to today’s church administrator?

Jesus had a remarkable ability to avert aggression.  When the Jewish leaders demanded to know if Jesus was the messiah, Jesus talked about the auditory responsiveness of livestock. (Sheep hear the good shepherd.)  What Jesus realized was that the answer to the question wasn’t the issue; it was the intent and subtext that was the driver.  In ministry there are always individuals who feel entitled to information and want to influence us as leaders.  The wise administrator needs to have a cache of stories, analogies or quotes that can be used to redirect or deflect questions that are inappropriate or manipulative.

You give Pilate credit as a good communicator? How so?

I was surprised to discover that Pilate used the same principles that we teach for dealing with a media crisis.  When you combine all the gospel accounts, Pilate tried over 20 ways to avoid crucifying Jesus. He told them it wasn’t his problem, not his job, there was no basis to the claims, asked for evidence, stalled, said Jesus was innocent, passed it off, tried to compromise, negotiated, and renegotiated. Unfortunately Pilate was wrestling against the divine will of God. Even though he was trumped by the Jewish leaders, Pilate’s story is an outstanding example of how to handle a difficult, adversarial or media crisis situation.

James Emery White has been both a seminary student and a seminary president (Gordon Conwell-Theological Seminary) and pulls few punches in writing What They Didn’t Teach You in Seminary. (Baker Books, 2011) He writes, “It was painfully clear how little my seminary education had actually prepared me for the day-in, day-out responsibilities of leading a church.”

What brought him to that conclusion? “The tasks at hand!,” he replies. “I was immediately thrust into doing things I had no training and little preparation for. Everyday things like hospital visits, weddings, funerals, officiating the Lord’s Supper, running a meeting, raising money, relational conflict, instituting appropriate change, church growth — the list goes on and on. I was thrown into being the leader for it all, and no one had ever taught me how to do any of it. I could tell you about the Council of Nicea, but not how to run a council.”

Dr. White leads Mecklenburg Community Church in Charlotte, NC, and responded to questions from Church Executive:

Was there anything that might have prepared you for the legal, financial, risk and human resources part of leading a church?

Yes, like a class! Hear my heart, I’m not anti-seminary. My life has been lived, primarily, in two vocational worlds: the church and the academy. I am the founding and senior pastor of a church, and a professor and former seminary president.

So if I wanted to pick a fight with a seminary, I’d only be picking a fight with myself. But there wasn’t a single class in my seminary experience that dealt with any of the dynamics you mention. Not one.

What is it about M.Div. programs that they can’t squeeze in some practical education?

In fairness to the M.Div., most of what you get is invaluable to being able to “rightly divide the Word of Truth” (I Tim. 2:15). But they can do better. Why is it that the average seminary graduate can go to a two-day conference and get more practical training than they did in their entire three-year residential M.Div. program? Seminaries must do better to bring this into the curriculum.

Did you do anything at the seminary to bring in some of these “day-in, day-out” responsibilities to the seminarians?

At Gordon-Conwell we required mentored ministry rotations where students have to be serving in the trenches, under a seasoned leader, throughout their seminary experience. That’s a great way to get practical training in, particularly if the school helps the student know what kind of mentored ministry rotations they need for their calling. Bringing in guest speakers and lecturers on the practice of ministry is also key. One thing we didn’t have, but should have had, is some kind of practical “exit” course at the end that goes over the day-in, day-out responsibilities of leadership: how to baptize, how to lead a meeting, how to raise money, how to structure your time, and so on.

Any war stories to share?

The book is full of them! I think, early on, where I suffered the most was in not knowing how to deal with relational conflict between people and within the church. My first church had been riddled with discord for years (I was their fifth pastor in less than 10 years). I was clueless as to what to do.

What else does the book cover that is important to know?

The book is filled with 25 very specific things that you won’t be taught in seminary, but that only come from being in the trenches: emotional survival, sexual fences, dealing with conflict, identifying safe people, envy toward other churches and so much more.

There must be a new book on leadership every week. But Jeremie Kubicek says his book, Leadership is Dead: How Influence is Reviving It (Howard Books, 2011) is different. “Most leadership books discuss principles or how-tos around improving capabilities.

My book deals with the capacity issue or what truly limits leaders or makes them mediocre by focusing on the nemesis of self-preservation. It is a fresh perspective in learning how to lead oneself and then beginning to see leadership is a vehicle for influence, not the end goal,” he says.

Kubicek is president and CEO of GiANT Impact, and is an entrepreneur who has built world-class brands and events to serve influencers around the world. He lives in Johns Creek, GA, and responded to questions from Church Executive:

What is wrong with leadership, or leadership development, within the church?

I believe the church has lost the apprenticeship mindset based on following first. Jesus was a great follower, which made him a great leader. The church grew out of apprenticing others based on the process found in Matthew 10. We have replaced apprenticeship with mentorship, a less effective way to train others.

Jesus trained the disciples to tell others that the kingdom of heaven was near and then show people by healing, casting out and raising up. The telling and showing were as essential as Jesus training the disciples on handling the authority and power. That seems to be missing in most churches as the emphasis tends to skew towards the Sunday service or the church programs rather than on equipping the people to do the work.

Is leadership dead in the church too?

Leadership is dead or alive in every leader, in the church or not. It is dead when the focus is on preserving a person’s ego, reputation, salary, etc. — when leadership is focused on the leader. It is alive when leadership is used to influence or impact others for the person’s best interest; leadership is alive when you give it away.

What takes its place? Influence? How so?

Leadership is influence. Influence is power. It is how you handle the power, whether you empower or overpower, which determines the wake of your leadership. When you overpower, you may have authority, but not a positive impact and so your influence withers and dies. When you empower, your influence grows because you become significant in others’ lives. The decision point lies in your agenda or intent for using your power.

Where in the church is leadership being taught well with parishioners?

I really like what the 3DM organization is doing, led by Mike Breen and Steve Cockram. I believe they are training leaders in the correct way, similar to the advice Jesse gave Moses about his leadership.

When church leaders equip others to advance the kingdom by aligning a person to their roles and their gifts and tie it in to the entire body, they are doing it right. The reason it rarely happens is that it is hard work and much easier to gather people to one big weekend event and serve them with general teaching. That is why most parishioners have atrophied; they are not being trained to use their muscles for the kingdom, but rather to volunteer to run the programs of the church.

It seems like many church staffs prefer to be the ones to lead, that they want parishioners to be followers. What does it mean to really actualize this concept in a megachurch?

Most megachurches are set up to be mini-kingdoms. The programs of the church extend to be like castle walls. The attendees are like serfs. Serfs pay a percentage to enjoy the blessings of the castle and rule of the king. For that percentage they get the use of the facility and of the program and hail the king as their leader. The operating system of the megachurch is the church itself.

Jesus made it clear that discipleship was the operating system and he didn’t set up mini-kingdoms. Instead, the disciples were routinely scattered to continue to expand the true kingdom, not the mini-kingdoms.

The explosion of digital media has changed copyright law since the last publication of Essential Guide to Copyright Law for Churches (CTI, 2011). Author Richard Hammar says  that “copyright law in the United States was established at a time when the primary concerns were literary and musical works in written form. But we now live in the Information Age in which computers, software, electronic and digital modes of storage and communication, and the Internet, have led many to view paper publications as obsolete.”

Hammar is an attorney and CPA and senior editor of Christianity Today International’s Church Law and Tax Report, Church Finance Today, and ChurchLawandTax.com. He responded to Church Executive’s questions:

What else is new since the third edition?

At the same time, the prodigious amount of free information on the Internet has contributed to the public perception that “on-line” information should be free, and this perception runs headlong into attempts by copyright owners to exact payment for access to their online information.

In short, we are in the midst of a monumental struggle to resolve these divergent views, and this struggle directly implicates several common church practices.

What are some common mistakes or misconceptions churches have regarding copyright?

• That religious music is not protected by copyright law.
• That documents, music and pictures containing no copyright notice are in the “public domain” and freely usable.
• That pastors can quote whatever they want from recent translations of the Bible without violating copyright law.
• That churches can show movies so long as they paid for them.
• That pastors and Christian education classes can show excerpts from movies or television programs.
• That church employees own the copyright in works they create in the course of their church employment.
• A church can make transparencies and slides of copyrighted music that are displayed on a screen or wall during worship services without violating the copyright law.
• It is okay for churches to make and sell video and audio recordings of worship services.

“Streaming” worship services over the Internet does not violate the copyright law.

What’s a “horror story” of a church in not observing copyright law?

A Michigan court ruled that a church had to pay $1.6 million in damages for recording a soloist’s performance during a religious service without her permission and then selling CDs of the service to church members and the general public.

How is social media impacting copyright, if at all?

There have been few cases involving allegations of copyright infringement by social media (Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.). But, I would expect a lot more litigation in this arena as a result of infringements by social media users on the exclusive rights of copyrights owners, most notably the rights of reproduction and adaptation. Persons who copy and disseminate copyrighted text, images, or music via social media are exposing themselves to a liability risk that must be taken seriously.

“Pastor Sunday” gets a book contract with “ReallyBigBooks” publisher. What rights does he retain; what rights go to the publishing company?

That depends. If the book is written in the course of employment, it is a “work for hire.” The Copyright Act states that the employer is the author of a work for hire, and unless the parties have agreed otherwise in a signed writing, owns the copyright in the work.

And, while the parties can agree in a signed writing that the employee owns the copyright, this raises significant legal and tax issues including possible jeopardy to the church’s tax-exempt status. There are two options.

First, the pastor scrupulously avoids writing the book in the course of his or her employment. This means that the book is written at home, during non-office hours, using the pastor’s computer and resources. Second, a signed agreement can be executed recognizing the pastor as the copyright owner.

In the revised edition of Leading the Congregation: Caring for Yourself while Serving the People (Abingdon, 2010) authors Roger Heuser and Norman Shawchuck speak to “the interplay of light and shadow” in ministry.

Shawchuck is an author of more than 20 books, pastor, and professor, and Heuser is professor of leadership studies at Vanguard University, Costa, CA. Church Executive asked Dr. Heuser to respond to questions about their book.

“It doesn’t take long to realize we have conflicting desires,” says Dr. Heuser. “St. Paul confessed to the believers in Rome that he doesn’t always do what he wants, while doing the very thing he hates (Rom 7:15). The interplay of light and shadow is a spiritual dynamic where the shadow side can be the onslaught of leaders’ temptations — we see these embarrassingly revealed in Scripture and in today’s press.

“But shadows can be more subtle, for example, within leaders who know how to manipulate others to get their way. Contrast these shadows with the spiritual dynamic of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5). Most people know when they live in their leader’s shadow or light.”

What is meant when you say that the pastor or leader projects his “spirit” upon the congregation?

I don’t think many people try to hide from others or diminish their inner joy, peace, kindness or any other fruit of the Spirit. Moods are contagious – I remember how disarming it was when my dog rushed out to meet me when I came home. What I don’t want to admit about myself – or want you to see – are my own fears, unresolved anger, and anxiety or my need to be recognized. So the people around us – family, friends, colleagues, and the entire congregation – can both benefit from our inner freedom and feel the tension of our unresolved issues.

How can a leader look inward and assess himself and his spirit and find correction?

The pain and suffering from a personal crisis gets our attention, but I don’t think it needs to be this way. The classic disciplines of silence and solitude eventually reveal our own conflicting desires. At their best, these disciplines provide the means of grace for our letting go of manipulating or grasping others and God. When I try this alone, I will likely fall into some game of self-deception, so being in a covenant relationship with others – spouse, friend, spiritual director – is also necessary.

How does one identify neurotic leadership?

It’s a wakeup call when we find ourselves serving others more from a motive of “I should” and less from the motive of “I want to.” It’s dangerous to our own health and the well being of others when we find ourselves resenting those whom God has called us to serve. Briefly, dramatic leaders need attention and excitement. Suspicious leaders are defensive and well guarded for any threats. Detached leaders are withdrawn, indifferent. Depressive leaders lack initiative and self-confidence. Compulsive leaders demand conformity, efficiency, and attention to details.

You speak to the same five characteristics of neurotic organizations or churches. Briefly explain the depressive church.

Most of us have experienced discouragement and even hopelessness, especially given the current economic crisis. And it can be depressing to be part of an organization that has managed to survive but there remain residual issues that have gone underground. Some leaders and congregations know no other way – they feel trapped in their inferiority, lack initiative, and are thus prone to abdicate responsibility.

How do you differentiate between a strong leader and one who is controlling?

I’d say that controlling leaders use their power for rewards and punishment – some guilt may also help – so that people are in lockstep with the leader’s wishes. Refusing to give up authority creates dependency and political alliances. Strong leaders, on the other hand, also use power but for different reasons. While they may take an unpopular stand, strong leaders break down barriers, foster honest communications and healthy conflict, empower others, and exhibit humility through service.